Men's Rugby Union World Cup 2023

[ProfessorDavey]

Looks like Namibia are continuing their trend of being good enough to qualify for every world cup since 1999 ... yet so woefully bad that their record is played 22, lost 22. Oh I think that will be played 23, lost 23 in about an hour.

[Nearly Sane]

Looks like Namibia are continuing their trend of being good enough to qualify for every world cup since 1999 ... yet so woefully bad that their record is played 22, lost 22. Oh I think that will be played 23, lost 23 in about an hour.

And? The football team I support has in its history won 1 major trophy, over 40 years before I was born, and I'm on the autumn/winter chicken cusp.

[jeremyp]

The best looking (as in hardest to predict, most even) match today looks to be Samoa v Chile today. I don't expect Tonga to trouble Ireland and Wales should have an easy ride against Portugal.

[Nearly Sane]

Well done, Fiji!


https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/66839029

[Outrider]

Well done, Fiji!


https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/66839029

I don't know if they've changed the link from the BBC Sport homepage, but it was saying that Fiji's win was an 'upset', which I'm not sure given how they've both been playing was really true. It's Fiji's first win against the Wallabies since, I think, the fifties, but on current form it was far from an upset. Great game to watch, and if Australia can beat Wales next week (anyone's guess given both teams patchy performances lately) it makes things really tight at the top of that group.

O.

[ProfessorDavey]

I don't know if they've changed the link from the BBC Sport homepage, but it was saying that Fiji's win was an 'upset', which I'm not sure given how they've both been playing was really true. It's Fiji's first win against the Wallabies since, I think, the fifties, but on current form it was far from an upset. Great game to watch, and if Australia can beat Wales next week (anyone's guess given both teams patchy performances lately) it makes things really tight at the top of that group.

O.

Yes - by far the best game of the tournament.

If Australia beat Wales it could well come down to bonus points.

[ProfessorDavey]

Intrigued by the Marler head incident.

Never realised that there isn't a knock on if the ball comes off the head.

Does this mean it could be used as a deliberate tactic - in other words a ball carrier deliberately heading the ball forward and passing through the line of defenders (who wouldn't be able legitimately tackle as he wouldn't have the ball). Never seen this tried, but seems like it could be a really effective tactic if there is the surprise element.

[Outrider]

Intrigued by the Marler head incident.

Never realised that there isn't a knock on if the ball comes off the head.

Does this mean it could be used as a deliberate tactic - in other words a ball carrier deliberately heading the ball forward and passing through the line of defenders (who wouldn't be able legitimately tackle as he wouldn't have the ball). Never seen this tried, but seems like it could be a really effective tactic if there is the surprise element.

You can, but typically it's difficult to get enough height on it to clear the defensive line and still get any distance on it to make it worthwhile - you're almost always better off kicking it. There are a few niche cases where it's beneficial - here's one

I don't follow Rugby League as much as Union, but I think I recall that they explicitly banned heading the ball forward.

O.

[ProfessorDavey]

You can, but typically it's difficult to get enough height on it to clear the defensive line and still get any distance on it to make it worthwhile - you're almost always better off kicking it. There are a few niche cases where it's beneficial - here's one

I don't follow Rugby League as much as Union, but I think I recall that they explicitly banned heading the ball forward.

O.

Interesting - but I've never seen it tried so it is hard to know whether it would work.

I think the point is about the surprise element - the defending team would simply not be expecting this tactic so quite possibly the ball would have been headed over them before they'd realise what was going on.

Once it became a recognised tactic then teams would coach to be prepared for it, but I don't think they are at the moment.

[ProfessorDavey]

And?

It shows the massive gulf in class as you drop down the rankings. Clearly Namibia are a class above the teams they need to beat in qualifying or they wouldn't routinely power through the qualifying tournament (often, I believe, winning all their games). But once they get to the world cup the gulf in class to the teams above them, even the fourth pot sides in the group, is also massive - hence they lose all their games.

What this demonstrates to me is firstly that there are too many teams in the world cup - there simply aren't enough sides of sufficient quality to justify a 20 team tournament.

But secondly the current situation surely cannot help develop Namibia (and the other similar sides) - surely you improve through close fought games - so they aren't going to develop through participating in the qualifying tournament, which looks really easy for them, nor the tournament itself, which it too hard.

The football team I support has in its history won 1 major trophy, over 40 years before I was born, and I'm on the autumn/winter chicken cusp.

And they've lost all their games? Never promoted nor relegated? I don't think you are comparing apples with apples.

[ProfessorDavey]

There are a few niche cases where it's beneficial - here's one

But that isn't what I was thinking.

Is it possible for a ball carrier to throw the ball up, head it forward themselves over the oncoming defenders and then collect the ball having run through the defending line (who wouldn't be able to tackle him).

[Outrider]

But that isn't what I was thinking.

Is it possible for a ball carrier to throw the ball up, head it forward themselves over the oncoming defenders and then collect the ball having run through the defending line (who wouldn't be able to tackle him).

Rules-wise it's exactly like kicking the ball forward, so if they were already in the act of tackling they could continue, but otherwise the ball is in open play, not in their control. You could do it.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

Rankings updated for the second matches

[jeremyp]

Yes - by far the best game of the tournament.

If Australia beat Wales it could well come down to bonus points.

Georgia also might have a say int the final group positions. I could see them beating Wales or Fiji.

[Outrider]

Georgia also might have a say int the final group positions. I could see them beating Wales or Fiji.

I don't think them winning is likely (not impossible, though) but who does or doesn't get a bonus point against them might be important, although the outcome of the Wales-Australia game could take bonus points out of contention. Fiji getting two bonus points in their loss to Wales already puts them at an advantage vs Australia only managing one in their own loss to the South Sea Islanders.

O.

[ProfessorDavey]

I don't think them winning is likely (not impossible, though) but who does or doesn't get a bonus point against them might be important, although the outcome of the Wales-Australia game could take bonus points out of contention. Fiji getting two bonus points in their loss to Wales already puts them at an advantage vs Australia only managing one in their own loss to the South Sea Islanders.

O.

Agree with that - don't think that Georgia will beat either Wales or Fiji, but if they can prevent either of those teams getting a bonus point that could be decisive.

[ProfessorDavey]

So last night we saw 'writ large' why the rugby world cup authorities need to deal with the issue of teams that are simply not at an appropriate level being able to qualify for the world cup.

So not only did we see Namibia's 100% losing streak in world cups continue - (they've qualified for every tournament since 1999, with the exception of a game in Japan 2019 that never actually took place), but also quite likely an injury to one of the most exciting players in the tournament that could end his participation.

Elsewhere, a few days ago, I was reading an article which compared grossly mis-matched matches in football and rugby. In the former, if you put up Man City vs your local Sunday league side, likely Man City would win by a cricket score but that would be just about it. But in rugby such mismatches create the risk of serious injury as one side is simply not technically good enough. In that article the writer was talking about risk to a player on the weaker side, but technical inadequacy also poses risks to the players on the better side as we saw last night.

This really has to stop - until there are sufficient sides of sufficient quality to justify a 20 team tournament the world cup needs to be restricted to teams (probably 16) that are of an acceptable quality. Otherwise the farce of teams losing 96-0 will continue and, more seriously, the risk of serious injury in matches that are entirely pointless will continue.

[Nearly Sane]

Dramatic match between Georgia and Portugal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66902116

[jeremyp]

England cruising against Chile

[jeremyp]

Dramatic match between Georgia and Portugal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66902116

Ironically, it probably prevents either team from qualifying for the knockout stage.

[Nearly Sane]

Ireland, big win over Sth Africa, both could win the whole thing, both could go out in the quarter finals.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66902188

[jeremyp]

Ireland, big win over Sth Africa, both could win the whole thing, both could go out in the quarter finals.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66902188

I saw the second half. I thought RSA were generally the better team except for their kicking.

[Nearly Sane]

I saw the second half. I thought RSA were generally the better team except for their kicking.

I agree, and they did lose a group game last World Cup before winning it, but except for their kicking' is s big except.

[Maeght]

I agree, and they did lose a group game last World Cup before winning it, but except for their kicking' is s big except.

Pollard will improve that.

[Outrider]

Adequate performance from Scotland, but failing to put as many points past Tonga as Ireland did. Not only shows that they are in that slightly lower tier from the top 2, but if the group does ever come down to points different that could be telling.

Another farcical review of a head collision for the first Tongan yellow card, though.

O.