Author Topic: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup  (Read 9201 times)

ProfessorDavey

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #125 on: August 21, 2023, 09:17:40 AM »
Well, I don't know about "overjoyed". I didn't read many, but they seemed more to be generously congratulating the Spaniards as the better team on the day, etc.
Absolutely - I'm struggling to see any comments indicating being 'overjoyed' that Spain won.

There seem to be two main themes:

1. That Spain were a class above England technically and that the better team won the match.
2. That Spain deployed the 'dark arts' of sports(wo)manship.

jeremyp

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #126 on: August 21, 2023, 02:32:41 PM »
Commenting on your point about technical quality - well it depends. To progress you simply need to be better than the team you are up against in each knock-out round. In its most simplistic terms you either come up against a team better than you and you get knocked out, or you never do and you win the tournament.

So you can potentially progress a long way even with significant technical limitations provided the draw unfolds kindly for you. The flip-side is also true - you may have a high quality team but come across an even better side in the quarter finals and out you go.

And actually England had a really easy route to the final once they'd progressed from the group stages - I think in the round of 16 they played a team ranked 40th in the world, in the quarters they played a team ranked 25th and in the semis a team ranked 10th. And actually they didn't really breeze their way through those stages, being behind to Columbia and Nigeria taking them all the way to penalties. The equivalent for Spain was 20, 9 and 3. Spain had a much tougher route to the final.

So I think the technical limitations were actually there all along, albeit England were able to progress as the rather low ranked teams they were playing had greater limitations. But in the final there really did seem to be a gulf in class between the two sides technically - Spain were just so much better at the neat one-touch passing stuff while England, when they were able to string together a set of passes, too often looked as if (and often did) they were simply going to lose the ball.

This isn't really a criticism and the team did brilliantly to reach the final, just being honest.
You're claiming that the fourth best football team in the World (pre tournament) doesn't know how to pass the ball. That strains credibility. Whatever the reasons why they weren't as good on the day as Spain, it wasn't that.

It may be as simple as Spain having an extra rest day before the final.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #127 on: August 21, 2023, 03:02:37 PM »
You're claiming that the fourth best football team in the World (pre tournament) doesn't know how to pass the ball. That strains credibility. Whatever the reasons why they weren't as good on the day as Spain, it wasn't that.
Stop misrepresenting me - I never said they don't know how to pass the ball. What I said was that Spain appeared technically superior and were better at the rapid one touch passing that is often really important in keeping the ball.

Now I'll see if I can find the stats on this, but certainly during the game there was a point in which both numbers of passes, and crucially passes completed, were flashed up and, unsurprisingly showed Spain to be clearly superior.

And it doesn't seem to be just me who thought that Spain were clearly technically superior - this is a key theme on the comments from the BBC article that NS linked to.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2023, 03:20:06 PM by ProfessorDavey »

ProfessorDavey

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #128 on: August 21, 2023, 03:05:51 PM »
Stop misrepresenting me - I never said they don't know how to pass the ball. What I said was that Spain appeared technically superior and were better at the rapid one touch passing that is often really important in keeping the ball.

Now I'll see if I can find the stats on this, but certainly during the game there was a point in which both numbers of passes, and crucially passes completed, were flashed up and, unsurprisingly showed Spain to be clearly superior.

And it doesn't seem to be just me who thought that Spain were clearly technically superior - this is a key theme on the comments from the BBC article that NS linked to.
Here you go:

https://www.365scores.com/football/international/women%27s-world-cup/match/england-(w)-spain/8475-12908-597/stats

Spain - total passes 485, passes completed 395 - 81%
England - total passes 362, passes completed 261 - 72%


Nearly Sane

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #129 on: August 21, 2023, 04:57:30 PM »
Spanish President having to apologise


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66568226

ProfessorDavey

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #130 on: August 21, 2023, 05:05:44 PM »
Spanish President having to apologise


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66568226
Not much chance that there would be the same issue with the president of the English FA - on the basis that he was on the other side of the world.

jeremyp

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #131 on: August 22, 2023, 09:17:52 AM »
Stop misrepresenting me - I never said they don't know how to pass the ball. What I said was that Spain appeared technically superior and were better at the rapid one touch passing that is often really important in keeping the ball.

Now I'll see if I can find the stats on this, but certainly during the game there was a point in which both numbers of passes, and crucially passes completed, were flashed up and, unsurprisingly showed Spain to be clearly superior.

And it doesn't seem to be just me who thought that Spain were clearly technically superior - this is a key theme on the comments from the BBC article that NS linked to.

They were better than England on the day. It doesn't mean that England were technically not good, which is your implication. It's an absurdity to say that about a team that is in the final of the World Cup.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #132 on: August 23, 2023, 08:57:50 AM »
They were better than England on the day.
Which is all we can judge them on - it is pure speculation whether this particular England team might have beaten this particular Spain team on another day.

It doesn't mean that England were technically not good, which is your implication.
It isn't what I said, nor is it my implication. What I actually said was:

All in all, Spain were just the better side. They were technically superior - much better able to keep the ball with neat one touch stuff.'

This is about the relative technical abilities - better, superior. And on that count my opinion seems to be clearly backed up not just by the result, but also by the underlying stats on passes and completed passes, which is key to one touch stuff and keeping the ball.

Ultimately we can only judge a teams actual technical ability by reference to other teams - put the England team up against a women's Sunday morning side and they'll look like world beaters. Put them up against the Man City men's team and they'll probably hardly get a touch. Put them up against Spain last Sunday and they looked clearly second best in technical terms.

What hasn't been discussed is that England had lost five key players that helped them win last summer - White and Scott retired and Mead, Kirby and Williamson were injured. Overall their squad wasn't as strong this summer compared to last, and ultimately that showed.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2023, 09:30:43 AM by ProfessorDavey »

jeremyp

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #133 on: August 23, 2023, 11:06:07 AM »
Which is all we can judge them on
Which makes your assertion all the more ridiculous.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #134 on: August 23, 2023, 11:24:56 AM »
Which makes your assertion all the more ridiculous.
No it doesn't at all.

My comment was about judging England's performance, and in particular their relative technical quality, against Spain in that match. And both my opinion having watched the match and the stats align in demonstrating that England's passing ability, a key element of technical ability, was clearly inferior to Spain's.

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #135 on: August 24, 2023, 04:36:30 PM »
Fifa opens disciplinary proceedings against Spanish football federation president, Rubiales

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66606387

Nearly Sane

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #136 on: August 25, 2023, 10:53:09 AM »

ProfessorDavey

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #137 on: August 25, 2023, 12:06:43 PM »
Sweden now ranked No 1


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66614837
And Spain, unsurprisingly, leapfrogged over England from 6th to 2nd.

Perhaps more surprisingly England have stayed 4th despite making the final - I guess this is because their path to the final involved victories over relatively low ranked sides.

Nearly Sane

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #138 on: August 25, 2023, 12:29:20 PM »
Fifa opens disciplinary proceedings against Spanish football federation president, Rubiales

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66606387
Who isn't resigning


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66609945

Nearly Sane

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Dicky Underpants

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #140 on: August 25, 2023, 07:36:09 PM »
Fifa opens disciplinary proceedings against Spanish football federation president, Rubiales

https://www
.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66606387
That well-known body of moral rectitude.
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

Nearly Sane

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Nearly Sane

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #142 on: August 26, 2023, 01:58:55 PM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #143 on: August 26, 2023, 04:58:31 PM »
Spanish women's team coaching staff, apart from the manager, resign.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66629505


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66629505

Nearly Sane

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #144 on: August 27, 2023, 01:12:13 PM »
Activate the 'sexual violence protocol'!


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66633123

Nearly Sane

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #145 on: August 28, 2023, 08:30:00 AM »
It would appear thar Rubiales has lost the dressing rooms , and the terraces


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-66636111

Nearly Sane

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #146 on: August 28, 2023, 12:03:06 PM »
And his mother now locked in a church and on hunger strike.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

jeremyp

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #147 on: August 29, 2023, 10:34:47 AM »
It's such a shame. This is the highlight of Spanish women's football and one man has ruined it.

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Nearly Sane

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #148 on: August 29, 2023, 03:08:54 PM »
It's such a shame. This is the highlight of Spanish women's football and one man has ruined it.

And now it may mean the manager gets sacked


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66645618

Nearly Sane

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Re: 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup
« Reply #149 on: September 04, 2023, 08:31:17 PM »
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 08:41:12 PM by Nearly Sane »