Author Topic: Mason Greenwood: Man Utd to consult with women's team before announcement  (Read 1185 times)

Nearly Sane

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jeremyp

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As of now, he has not been convicted o any crime. The fact that the CPS says "new material has come to light" that means there is no realistic chance of prosecution, suggests to me that he did not commit the crime and there is evidence that proves that.

Are we going to ruin the career of a man who is likely innocent?
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Nearly Sane

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As of now, he has not been convicted o any crime. The fact that the CPS says "new material has come to light" that means there is no realistic chance of prosecution, suggests to me that he did not commit the crime and there is evidence that proves that.

Are we going to ruin the career of a man who is likely innocent?

I think the issue is whether his actual behaviour was acceptable for representing Man Utd rather than if it amounted to breaking the law. Plenty of people get sacked for things that don't amount to breaking the law.


Also that the CPS is not prosecuting in a case involving sexual assault does not tell you that someone is likely innocent, unless you think that the very low % of prosecutiilons in such cases is all to do with people lying about being assaulted.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 09:26:56 AM by Nearly Sane »

ProfessorDavey

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I think the issue is whether his actual behaviour was acceptable for representing Man Utd rather than if it amounted to breaking the law. Plenty of people get sacked for things that don't amount to breaking the law.
That's true and I completely accept that you can be sacked for gross misconduct without doing anything that is actually unlawful. But that should involve a formal process by the employer - I'm not aware whether Man U have conducted such an investigation, but I think that they need to do so if they are going to rip up his contract, in the same manner as would apply to any other employer/employee relationship.

Also that the CPS is not prosecuting in a case involving sexual assault does not tell you that someone is likely innocent, unless you think that the very low % of prosecutiilons in such cases is all to do with people lying about being assaulted.
Again true - but the wording from the CPS, specifically "new material had come to light, meaning there was "no longer a realistic prospect of conviction" seems important. So this seems to be different to 'we don't have enough evidence to secure a prosecution', but that new evidence has arisen which makes a conviction all but impossible. So it seems that new evidence is key rather than lack of evidence.

Whether or not he is actually innocent, rather than very unlikely to be convicted is a completely different matter, but legally he will be presumed to be without a conviction.

Nearly Sane

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That's true and I completely accept that you can be sacked for gross misconduct without doing anything that is actually unlawful. But that should involve a formal process by the employer - I'm not aware whether Man U have conducted such an investigation, but I think that they need to do so if they are going to rip up his contract, in the same manner as would apply to any other employer/employee relationship.
Again true - but the wording from the CPS, specifically "new material had come to light, meaning there was "no longer a realistic prospect of conviction" seems important. So this seems to be different to 'we don't have enough evidence to secure a prosecution', but that new evidence has arisen which makes a conviction all but impossible. So it seems that new evidence is key rather than lack of evidence.

Whether or not he is actually innocent, rather than very unlikely to be convicted is a completely different matter, but legally he will be presumed to be without a conviction.
Man Utd are carrying out an investigation.






ProfessorDavey

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Man Utd are carrying out an investigation.
Good - that's what should happen and if he is found to have broken the rules that Man U set as an employer they then have the right to terminate his contract.

For the record I'm very doubtful that Greenwood will play again for Man U - even if the investigation doesn't find against him I think the level of bad publicity over this will mean that a negotiated exit from the club will happen.

Realistically I think this would be for the best for both player and club.

Nearly Sane

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Greenwood leaving Man Utd after investigation. The question then is who takes him on.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66554874

ProfessorDavey

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Greenwood leaving Man Utd after investigation. The question then is who takes him on.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66554874
If I'm reading this correctly it would appear that the investigation didn't find against Greenwood in a manner that would have permitted the club to sack him. Hence the decision is by mutual consent. So effectively although Man U investigation didn't conclude that his contract should be terminated both player and club recognised that him continuing to be a Man U player was an untenable situation.

Will be interesting to see who (if anyone) will be prepared to take a punt on him. I doubt it will be any of the highest profile clubs and not one with a high ranking women's team.

Wolves?!?

Nearly Sane

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If I'm reading this correctly it would appear that the investigation didn't find against Greenwood in a manner that would have permitted the club to sack him. Hence the decision is by mutual consent. So effectively although Man U investigation didn't conclude that his contract should be terminated both player and club recognised that him continuing to be a Man U player was an untenable situation.

Will be interesting to see who (if anyone) will be prepared to take a punt on him. I doubt it will be any of the highest profile clubs and not one with a high ranking women's team.

Wolves?!?
I'm not sure that we have enough information to take that reading. Alternatively, they have a strong enough case to sack him but to avoid both any possible arbitration, and also to avoid a full impact on his career, both sides have agreed this as a compromise.

jeremyp

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I'm not sure that we have enough information to take that reading. Alternatively, they have a strong enough case to sack him but to avoid both any possible arbitration, and also to avoid a full impact on his career, both sides have agreed this as a compromise.

We can't say for sure, but I think PD's assessment is the most likely.
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ProfessorDavey

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We can't say for sure, but I think PD's assessment is the most likely.
Having plumped for Wolves as a destination, on reflection I think he may move abroad where there will have been much less media attention so he’s less likely to attract controversy.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Mason Greenwood: Man Utd to consult with women's team before announcement
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2023, 09:12:56 AM »
Having plumped for Wolves as a destination, on reflection I think he may move abroad where there will have been much less media attention so he’s less likely to attract controversy.
And indeed he has moved to Spain


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66691162


ETA - Given what the main news is Spanish football, the Greenwood story may get highlighted by that.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2023, 09:19:44 AM by Nearly Sane »

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Mason Greenwood: Man Utd to consult with women's team before announcement
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2023, 09:46:46 AM »
And indeed he has moved to Spain


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66691162


ETA - Given what the main news is Spanish football, the Greenwood story may get highlighted by that.
Interestingly a loan deal rather than a permanent move.

Also interesting, as you suggest, given the whole Rubiales debacle.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Mason Greenwood: Man Utd to consult with women's team before announcement
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2023, 02:34:48 PM »

Nearly Sane

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