Author Topic: Great! British Railways!  (Read 698 times)

Steve H

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Great! British Railways!
« on: April 25, 2024, 06:27:42 AM »
Labour commits itself to renationalising the railways, something it should have done under Blair or Brown.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/24/labour-promises-rail-nationalisation-within-five-years-of-coming-to-power
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Gordon

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2024, 07:54:33 AM »
As far as I'm aware Scotrail already is in public ownership (by an arm of the Scottish Government) and has been since 2022 - so I'm not sure whether this is mainly about England and Wales.

Hate the proposed name though - sounds very like faux patriotism to me (and a patriotism I don't share).

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2024, 08:04:30 AM »
As far as I'm aware Scotrail already is in public ownership (by an arm of the Scottish Government) and has been since 2022 - so I'm not sure whether this is mainly about England and Wales.

Hate the proposed name though - sounds very like faux patriotism to me (and a patriotism I don't share).
Doesn't need to be patriotic, could be construed like the notion that we are European by geography.
That Scottish railways could still end up under it's label is unfortunate but down to the decision of the Scottish electorate in2014 and the continued failure of the SNP in their chief aim.

I think Scotrail operates on the basis of the Scottish government being "The operator of last resort" a status shared with some operators in England and Wales

Steve H

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2024, 08:47:21 AM »
I hate the name 'Great British Railways' too, for the same reason as Gordon, plus the fact that it's gimmicky. The "Great" in "Great Britain" refers to the fact that it's the largest island in the British Isles, and does not have the value-added meaning implied. It wasn't considered necessary when the system was called "British Rail", and before that "British Railways".
« Last Edit: April 25, 2024, 09:05:16 AM by SteveH »
"That bloke over there, out of Ultravox, is really childish."
"Him? Midge Ure?"
"Yes, very."

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2024, 09:47:57 AM »
Can't say I'm particularly a fan of the name, although it was pretty inevitable that it would be this, give that the only serious alternative would be British Railways and ... err ... that has historic connotations.

But frankly I don't really care about the name - the issue is that the plan brings the railways back into state ownership ... or to be precise UK state ownership as many of the franchises are state owned currently, just that those states are Germany, Netherlands, France etc. So the profit siphoned off by our extortionate and poor quality railway system is actually used to support the quality and lower costs for railway passengers in other countries. Absolute madness. Effectively currently (unless as a provider of last resort) our railways are allowed to be state owned by any country ... except the UK!

Steve H

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2024, 10:56:02 AM »
Next up for renationalisation - Royal Mail: and one of Jeremy Corbyn's bright ideas - setting up a nationalised Pharmaceutical company, to compete with the commercial ones and keep prices down -- should be reconsidered, as well.
"That bloke over there, out of Ultravox, is really childish."
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2024, 11:11:17 AM »
Next up for renationalisation - Royal Mail: and one of Jeremy Corbyn's bright ideas - setting up a nationalised Pharmaceutical company, to compete with the commercial ones and keep prices down -- should be reconsidered, as well.
Is there a problem in the UK with high drug prices?

Steve H

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2024, 11:31:17 AM »
Is there a problem in the UK with high drug prices?
Not with prescription-free ones, but I think the NHS pays more than it ought to for prescription drugs.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2024, 11:33:28 AM »
Not with prescription-free ones, but I think the NHS pays more than it ought to for prescription drugs.
Do you know how much it costs to develop a new drug Steve?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2024, 11:45:37 AM »
Not with prescription-free ones, but I think the NHS pays more than it ought to for prescription drugs.
And that would be solved by nationalisation in what way?

Steve H

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2024, 11:49:28 AM »
And that would be solved by nationalisation in what way?
By charging reasonable prices, as I said in the earlier reply - do pay attention.
"That bloke over there, out of Ultravox, is really childish."
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2024, 11:51:12 AM »
By charging reasonable prices, as I said in the earlier reply - do pay attention.
I am. How would drug development pay for itself? You are just waving a magic wand, and calling it policy
« Last Edit: April 25, 2024, 12:06:57 PM by Nearly Sane »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2024, 11:54:25 AM »
This thread was about railways. Please get back on track.

I'll get my coat.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2024, 11:55:21 AM »
This thread was about railways. Please gey back on track.

I'll get my coat.
So not about the benefits of nationalisation?

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Great! British Railways!
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2024, 11:58:20 AM »
By charging reasonable prices, as I said in the earlier reply - do pay attention.
But the prices charged need to take account of the time, cost and risk associated with developing a new drug. It takes roughly 15-20 years to take a new drug to approval for routine use, at a cost of over £1Billion and with over 90% of drugs that get as far as clinical trials failing to get approval.

Do you really want the public purse taking on that level of risk Steve? And if they did likely the cost of the drugs would still be similar as at would still need to take account of those huge costs for development.

There are some places where public ownership makes sense, particular where there can be no meaningful competition - railways and water companies are a good example. There are other places where private enterprise is better placed to take the risk, and reasonably would expect to benefit through potential profit should they take the risk. The development of new pharmaceutical products seems to be a good example of the latter.

If government wants to reduce the costs for new drugs the place to look it the drug development pathway - how this highly bureaucratic regulatory system can be streamlined, without increasing risk to patients.