'Madness' to allow home schooling when abuse suspected

[Nearly Sane]

The Sara Sharif case is utterly tragic, and deeply depressing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgn8lp30ydo

[Steve H]

Home schooling should be banned in any case, because it is thoroughly unhealthy, and many home-schooling parents are religious nutters or conspiracy theorists who don't want their kids being tagt to think for themselves, or taught real facts. I have known on line two people who were, or claimed to be, home-schoolers. both were semi-literate, extreme Christian creationists with the sort of views you'd expect on religious tolerance, women's rights, sexuality, etc. As another poster said to one of them, "the thought of you being in charge of s child's education makes my blood run cold". Mine too. Then there is the serious possibility of physical and sexual abuse accompanying the intellectual abuse, to return to the main theme of the thread.
While we're at it, let's ban religious schools.

[Outrider]

Home schooling should be banned in any case, because it is thoroughly unhealthy, and many home-schooling parents are religious nutters or conspiracy theorists who don't want their kids being tagt to think for themselves, or taught real facts. I have known on line two people who were, or claimed to be, home-schoolers. both were semi-literate, extreme Christian creationists with the sort of views you'd expect on religious tolerance, women's rights, sexuality, etc. As another poster said to one of them, "the thought of you being in charge of s child's education makes my blood run cold". Mine too. Then there is the serious possibility of physical and sexual abuse accompanying the intellectual abuse, to return to the main theme of the thread.

In principle I understand the impulse, I'd not be in favour of an outright ban but I do think it should be scrutinised better than it is - we have two autistic children, at different levels, and finding a school that could accommodate their needs without compromising the standard of education they would be getting was not easy. We gave serious consideration to home schooling one of them for a period, until we were able to get him into a school that worked (we had to go private to achieve that, in the end).

With sufficient funding and scope for SEN provision, and a dialling back of the current overcorrection we're going through on inclusion that wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is now, but I don't know that they'll ever be able to design a system that will accommodate all the possible needs profiles.

While we're at it, let's ban religious schools.

100%! I work in an education trust, and we have one faith school in the trust - it's creepily oppressive when you go there, bible verses and religious posters on every scrap of spare wall you can find. I'm not suggesting they're all like that, I've not been to enough to know, but that it's permissible means there's several hundred kids a year blitzed with this every school day for six or seven of their formative years.

O.

[Gordon]

What Sara endured is almost too painful to think about: truly horrific and largely hidden from view. Yet another 'lessons will be learned" situation where, sadly, they rarely are - as other cases confirm ('Baby P' etc).

There may be situations where home-schooling is a viable, or the only, option: remote communities or where children are too unwell to attend school or have needs that schools cannot effectively deal with. In such cases there perhaps should be routine mandatory welfare checks alongside any arrangements to monitor educational progress of home-schooled children, but it needs to be properly resourced by appropriately qualified staff who take the opportunity to monitor both education and welfare.

[Nearly Sane]

I agree with Outrider that a blanket ban on home schooling seems problematic. I think as was suggested in the article a register of children being home schooled makes sense  in part because if it's being done because of inadequacies in SEN provision, then it would be useful to be able to be able to offer the option for state schooling of things were to improve in an area.

I'm not a huge fan of banning things, and that instinct kicks in as regards religious schools, but I struggle to understand what they are for currently.


I'm unsure though if the murder of Sara sharing gives the perennial 'lessons to be leatned'. We seem to lean to using the tragic cases for finding lessons, when it's more in the everyday failings that you can see where to improve things.

[Nearly Sane]

What Sara endured is almost too painful to think about: truly horrific and largely hidden from view. Yet another 'lessons will be learned" situation where, sadly, they rarely are - as other cases confirm ('Baby P' etc).

There may be situations where home-schooling is a viable, or the only, option: remote communities or where children are too unwell to attend school or have needs that schools cannot effectively deal with. In such cases there perhaps should be routine mandatory welfare checks alongside any arrangements to monitor educational progress of home-schooled children, but it needs to be properly resourced by appropriately qualified staff who take the opportunity to monitor both education and welfare.

Seems my post that followed your on the 'lessons to be learned' idea. It's so much of a cliche that we both put it in quotes.


There's an impossible set of things to balance in terms of how we structure welfare to give power to act while allowing freedom for individuals. Too often tragedies like this are seen as the while story, telling of systemic failures, and useless social workers, when they are exceptions. There will no doubt be calls for systemic reviews which will take the time these things do, and lead to recommendations that may well not apply by the time they are put forward.

While I  have a irritable bowel reaction to management terms, continuous improvement is surely much more likely to deal with the problems than great reviews in making the processes work.

[ProfessorDavey]

The report (and other reports I've seen) isn't clear on what actually happened when Sara stopped attending school. There is a difference between a situation where parents formally inform the school that the child has left (and the school then takes that child off their register) and a situation where a child simply stops attending school but is still on the school's register. The school has distinct responsibilities in each case, and more so given their requirement to monitor her for safeguarding.

If the school was informed that Sara was being formally withdrawn from the school (and would therefore be removed from their register) the school's formal safeguarding responsibilities would end once she was removed from the register. But the school would need to liaise with other authorities to ensure that the safeguarding responsibilities were handed over to others.

If she simply stopped attending school but remained on their register then their safeguarding responsibilities to monitor would remain. They would be expected to contact the parents (or father) and gain assurances as to why Sara was not attending. And if they were not satisfied they have the authority (and actually a duty) to visit the child's home in order to assure themselves that Sara is Ok. Any concerns (e.g. parent refusing to cooperate) should immediately resulting in escalating to the so-called LADO (Local Authority Designated Officer for Safeguarding) and the involvement of other agencies would be necessary.

No idea whether any of this was done, or whether Sara simply vanished in a black hole between school and LA safeguarding responsibilities.

[ProfessorDavey]

Not sure I would ban home schooling, but it should be regulated to the same extent as normal schooling.

Every child has the right to be safe and to receive a broad and balanced education of sufficient quality. That should apply to home schooling just as much to normal schooling and the right means nothing unless the home school environment and education is inspected just as a school would be. On safeguarding this is even more critical as a school has many eyes and ears, whereas a child in a home school environment may be hidden.

[jeremyp]

Not sure I would ban home schooling, but it should be regulated to the same extent as normal schooling.

Every child has the right to be safe and to receive a broad and balanced education of sufficient quality. That should apply to home schooling just as much to normal schooling and the right means nothing unless the home school environment and education is inspected just as a school would be. On safeguarding this is even more critical as a school has many eyes and ears, whereas a child in a home school environment may be hidden.

I accept the arguments laid out above for children with special needs, but a normal child with no such needs deserves to be educated by professionals.

[Nearly Sane]

I accept the arguments laid out above for children with special needs, but a normal child with no such needs deserves to be educated by professionals.

Not disagreeing but one way of reading your post is that children with special needs don't deserve to be educated by professionals which I don't think you mean.

[ProfessorDavey]

I accept the arguments laid out above for children with special needs, but a normal child with no such needs deserves to be educated by professionals.

It isn't a given that all 'home' schooled children are not being taught by professionals. In some cases they may be fully home tutored by professionally qualified tutors. Or they may have parents who are trained professionals and capable of providing high quality education. My wife who is a trained early years/primary age teacher would have been perfectly adequately trained to 'home' school our children until they were about 10. We didn't do so as to us (and most people) the social interactions of school are absolutely critical to development (plus it would have driven her bonkers!).

I'm not supportive of home schooling, but see a difference between not personally being in favour and wanting it banned. The key point is that if you home school you must be inspected in the same manner as schools are and you must be able to demonstrate that the learning environment is both safe and providing a high quality broad and balanced curriculum.

Not sure I agree on special needs - surely those kids need even more specialist provision, something that fewer trained professionals, and fewer still parents have the necessary skills to deliver.

[jeremyp]

Not disagreeing but one way of reading your post is that children with special needs don't deserve to be educated by professionals which I don't think you mean.

Yes, they also deserve educating by professionals - perhaps more so. I think the fact that home schooling by the parents seems to be the best option sometimes is an indication that the system is failing them.

[jeremyp]

It isn't a given that all 'home' schooled children are not being taught by professionals.

Yes, note that I didn't say the that they needed to be educated in a school but that they needed to be educated by professionals. The was a deliberate choice of words.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes, they also deserve educating by professionals - perhaps more so. I think the fact that home schooling by the parents seems to be the best option sometimes is an indication that the system is failing them.

I think often parents home school for ideological reasons, which they justify by 'the system failing them'.

[jeremyp]

I think often parents home school for ideological reasons, which they justify by 'the system failing them'.

Well I wasn't talking about them with respect to the system failing them, I was talking about children with special needs. And, if somebody is justifying home schooling their children purely on the grounds of their own ideology, they are talking crap.

[ProfessorDavey]

And, if somebody is justifying home schooling their children purely on the grounds of their own ideology, they are talking crap.

But there are plenty that do - ideologically opposed to formal schooling starting at 4/5, ideologically opposed to a broadly standard curriculum, to testing etc etc. But this ideology will often be wrapped up in 'ah but the problem is the system, not my ideology'.

A classic is the 'my child is just too bright, being held back by mainstream schooling'. My wife ran a highly successful preschool for 20 years (pre-compulsory school age). Occasionally she had parents who had this attitude (who were, of course not professionals) and it was never the case. Often the 'my child is just too bright, being held back by mainstream schooling' was actually a cover for a child who had not been set any reasonable boundaries at home and was disruptive, not because they were bored and being held back, but because they were never told 'no' at home.

[Steve H]

I accept the arguments laid out above for children with special needs, but a normal child with no such needs deserves to be educated by professionals.

I agree. Trouble is that many home-schooling parents are convinced, against all evidence and professional advice, that that their kid has special needs - autism is a favourite parental diagnosis. It's a form of Munchausen syndrome by proxy, I suppose. In such cases, the law would have to weigh in to oblige the parents to send the kid to school.

[ProfessorDavey]

I agree. Trouble is that many home-schooling parents are convinced, against all evidence and professional advice, that that their kid has special needs - autism is a favourite parental diagnosis. It's a form of Munchausen syndrome by proxy, I suppose. In such cases, the law would have to weigh in to oblige the parents to send the kid to school.

The opposite is also common - were parents refuse to accept that their child has special needs and are resistant to any approach to diagnose and get support which could really help.

Point is, firstly that parents are often very bad at identifying special needs in their own children. Secondly that if their child does have special needs often conclude that 'the system' isn't able to deal with their child when often the system is perfectly able to provide for their child including addressing their particular needs. And that being in a mainstream schooling environment (except where the special needs are very severe) is absolutely the best place for them to be from the perspective of the child. Whether that is the case from the perspective of the school is another matter!

[Nearly Sane]

Increase in those being home schooled

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czr3le77plro

And details on the plans for register of those being hone schooled



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7r579z0x5o

[ProfessorDavey]

Increase in those being home schooled

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czr3le77plro

And details on the plans for register of those being hone schooled



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7r579z0x5o

It is absolutely crazy that we haven't had a register up to now.

[Roses]

I home schooled our adopted Downs Syndrome son, who will be 40 in March. We were not happy with the special school he would have had to attend in the area in which we were then living. I ensured he didn't miss out on mixing with other chiidren in a school environment. Our eldest girl was then a primary school teacher and our son often went on school trips with her school. When he was of secondary school age my husband was a headteacher and he was permitted to go on a school trip to Austria, with me in attendence to help out as a member of staff was ill and unable to go. I would ask the school inspectors to drop by from time to time to see if I was doing a good job. They were most complimentary.

[Nearly Sane]

I home schooled our adopted Downs Syndrome son, who will be 40 in March. We were not happy with the special school he would have had to attend in the area in which we were then living. I ensured he didn't miss out on mixing with other chiidren in a school environment. Our eldest girl was then a primary school teacher and our son often went on school trips with her school. When he was of secondary school age my husband was a headteacher and he was permitted to go on a school trip to Austria, with me in attendence to help out as a member of staff was ill and unable to go. I would ask the school inspectors to drop by from time to time to see if I was doing a good job. They were most complimentary.

And that's hugely to your credit. I think though that you would support a register of those being home schooled and a restriction on the move to home schooling by someone when abuse was suspected?

[Roses]

And that's hugely to your credit. I think though that you would support a register of those being home schooled and a restriction on the move to home schooling by someone when abuse was suspected?

I completely agree that any parent who is suspected of being abusive should not be pemitted to home school. I only home schooled our son as a last resort as the special school wasn't coping well with their pupils.

[Nearly Sane]

I completely agree that any parent who is suspected of being abusive should not be pemitted to home school. I only home schooled our son as a last resort as the special school wasn't coping well with their pupils.

And just to check you would support a register of those being home schooled?

[Roses]

And just to check you would support a register of those being home schooled?

I do support a register. School inspectors should inspect all home schoolers on a regular basis, imo.