Author Topic: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️  (Read 22457 times)

Gonnagle

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #875 on: April 14, 2025, 08:44:46 PM »
Dear Gordon,

If I were ever to have been a Christian (nae fucking chance of that) I'd like to think I'd be the same sort of Christian that you are.


But Gordon❤️ Baby Jesus wants you for a Sunbeam ::)

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #876 on: April 15, 2025, 09:34:26 AM »
Dear Prof,

Including importantly human faces we all do it, and I have to say my theory ( aye its mine ::) ) that we are Homo religious is looking good, and no I am not saying proof of God ( that will come later  8) ) simply that we are Homo religious, Homo sapiens, Homo Narran's, we are more

Gonnagle.
Oh dear - you really are clutching at straws now gonners - so seeing a face in a cloud is an indication of religion!?! No it isn't - it is an indication of evolutionary pattern recognition which is a key feature of the human brain.

Now there may be a subset of people (probably more in the past than now) who interpret that 'pattern' as a real face and somehow significant. Perhaps they are overlaying a religious element to the neurophysiology or maybe they just don't understand what they are actually seeing. But for the rest of us we recognise the pattern to be what it is - something that looks to us like a face, but in reality isn't a face but a random pattern within the cloud formation. That doesn't mean we don't enjoy the experience, perhaps find it beautiful or interesting, that we won't point to our friend and say - 'look that cloud looks just like an elephant' - but we don't think there is a real face or a real elephant there.

So perhaps the distinction here isn't the universal human ability for pattern recognition, but between those who do not seek the truth and are gullible enough to think that something that isn't there actually is, and those who recognise what they see for what it really is - a cloud, with the 'face' merely being a figment of our imaginations.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2025, 09:47:45 AM by ProfessorDavey »

Gonnagle

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #877 on: April 15, 2025, 08:03:12 PM »
Oh dear - you really are clutching at straws now gonners - so seeing a face in a cloud is an indication of religion!?! No it isn't - it is an indication of evolutionary pattern recognition which is a key feature of the human brain.

Now there may be a subset of people (probably more in the past than now) who interpret that 'pattern' as a real face and somehow significant. Perhaps they are overlaying a religious element to the neurophysiology or maybe they just don't understand what they are actually seeing. But for the rest of us we recognise the pattern to be what it is - something that looks to us like a face, but in reality isn't a face but a random pattern within the cloud formation. That doesn't mean we don't enjoy the experience, perhaps find it beautiful or interesting, that we won't point to our friend and say - 'look that cloud looks just like an elephant' - but we don't think there is a real face or a real elephant there.

So perhaps the distinction here isn't the universal human ability for pattern recognition, but between those who do not seek the truth and are gullible enough to think that something that isn't there actually is, and those who recognise what they see for what it really is - a cloud, with the 'face' merely being a figment of our imaginations.

Dear Prof, how are you this fine evening,

No Prof, not a indication of religion, an indication that we are pre programmed ,if the brain does not recognise a, lets say a swirl in a rock, a funny shaped cloud, a weirdly shaped vegetable ( that's a good one ) it will from its vast memory bank make something it recognises, and the vast majority of the time it will be a face, I did it myself today, whilst pondering life and taking the air ( skiving at work ) I looked at a cloud, a shapeless cloud, but not for long, it turned into a foxes face, what the frack do I know about foxes living in a built up area of Glasgow, nothing, and no I am not going mad ( well not madder than usual ) we all do it.

And let us not get carried away with ourselves and remember who we are discussing, early man.

And also please remember that this phenomenon is just a very small part of what makes a human being, an interesting part, but very small part, we are very complex creatures.

So Prof, what would early man have made of this phenomenon.

And once again, my argument is simply "Homo religious".

"Homo religiosus" is a concept that proposes that humans have an inherent, natural inclination towards religion, or a religious experience. This idea suggests that humans are not just rational beings, but also beings who seek meaning, transcendence, and the sacred, regardless of their specific religious background. It's a widely debated topic in philosophy, religion, and anthropology, with various interpretations and perspectives.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Core Idea:
Inherent Religious Drive:
"Homo religiosus" posits that humans have a fundamental, built-in need or drive to find meaning beyond the material world, often expressed through religious beliefs and practices.
Beyond Materialism:
It suggests that human existence is not solely defined by scientific understanding and material needs, but also by a desire for the spiritual and transcendent.
Universality:
The concept argues that this religious inclination is a universal aspect of human experience, present across different cultures and throughout history.
Variations and Interpretations:
Eliade's Perspective:
Mircea Eliade saw "homo religiosus" as a fundamental aspect of human nature, where the sacred and profane are intertwined in various proportions. He emphasized the importance of sacred spaces and rituals in shaping religious experience.
Jünger's Perspective:
Ernst Jünger viewed "homo religiosus" as a human need for religion, which could be filled by various systems of belief and practice.
"Homo religiosus" as a starting point for ethics:
Some scholars use "homo religiosus" to explore the origins of morality and ethics, suggesting that religious beliefs and practices can shape our understanding of good and evil.
Counterarguments:
Naturalistic Explanations:
Some argue that religious beliefs are not innate but rather cultural or social constructs that evolved to fulfill certain psychological or social needs.
Atheism/Secularism:
Atheists and secularists may reject the notion of an inherent religious drive, arguing that human nature can be understood without reference to religion.
Key Considerations:
Evolutionary Origins:
Some researchers explore the evolutionary origins of religious behavior, seeking to understand how and why religious practices may have emerged in human societies.
Religious Freedom:
Cambridge University Press & Assessment examines the concept of "homo religiosus" in relation to religious freedom, exploring the philosophical and ethical dimensions of the right to practice and believe as one chooses.
 


To end Professor,

Homo Religiosus-culture, Cognition, Emotion put this into your gizmo, your lap top, computer, but the conclusion is and our Gordon will like it with his irrational rational brain :) the link is far to long to post but here is the conclusion.

5. Conclusions
At this point the scientific opinions on “Homo religious” are divided, or they constitute a complex
understanding of this phenomenon. On one side lies researchers that argue the religious feeling is a cultural
phenomenon that has evolved with the development of human society; on the other hand we find neuro-imaging
studies indicating that in the human brain there are very well defined areas activating under the influence of
religious stimuli. The last category of views, in which we stand, suggests that religious feeling is a complex
phenomenon, with clear biological basis, and socio-cultural extensions.
Whatever view we accept, we are witnessing now the presence of simultaneous rational and irrational in a
world increasingly technicist and accurate. In terms of mental health, the concomitant presence of rational and
irrational in many people creates discomfort and imbalances of different amplitudes.



The last category of views, in which we stand, suggests that religious feeling is a complex
phenomenon, with clear biological basis, and socio-cultural extensions.


A clear biological basis, go on Prof admit it, we are Homo Religious" and more so much more, well I am ;D 8) :P ::)

Gonnagle.

I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #878 on: April 16, 2025, 09:11:51 AM »
Dear Prof, how are you this fine evening,
Well it is morning now, but very well thank you.

No Prof, not a indication of religion, an indication that we are pre programmed ,if the brain does not recognise a, lets say a swirl in a rock, a funny shaped cloud, a weirdly shaped vegetable ( that's a good one ) it will from its vast memory bank make something it recognises, and the vast majority of the time it will be a face, I did it myself today, whilst pondering life and taking the air ( skiving at work ) I looked at a cloud, a shapeless cloud, but not for long, it turned into a foxes face, what the frack do I know about foxes living in a built up area of Glasgow, nothing, and no I am not going mad ( well not madder than usual ) we all do it.
I agree that humans are hard-wired to be inquisitive, to try to work stuff out. But that doesn't equate to 'religion', merely a recognition that our ability to problem solve has huge evolutionary advantage.

But I would also argue that inquisitiveness also equates to questioning and skepticism. So the human brain is hard-wired to work stuff out, but that also means challenging things unless demonstrated to be correct.

And let us not get carried away with ourselves and remember who we are discussing, early man.

And also please remember that this phenomenon is just a very small part of what makes a human being, an interesting part, but very small part, we are very complex creatures.

So Prof, what would early man have made of this phenomenon.
Well I think that early man would have tried to work stuff out and that may have led to a leap from 'why is there fire coming down from the sky' to 'well there must be a kind of super-human in the sky throwing fire at us'. Understandable but wrong, of course. So the lack of intellectual tools that we have available to us today may have led to conclusions that are both wrong and appear religious to us now.

But I doubt that early man would have had this distinction between material and spiritual that Vlad obsesses endlessly about. Nope, they would have bundled everything into how they thought the world was - genuinely there was a sky man throwing down fire, or elephants holding up the universe, or that the sun went round the earth etc. Nope this distinction I think is a much newer phenomenon - one based on increasing evidence base which has largely dismissed supernatural claims and therefore to retain some element of the supernatural it needs to be made distinct from the natural.

There is another element here - much of what we see in spiritual/religious belief is anthropomorphic or anthropocentric - i.e. animals/nature must have human like attributes, god must be effectively a super-human, humans must be at the centre of everything. Completely understandable from an evolutionary viewpoint, but also highly suggestive that these stories are generated by human cultures and societies.

And once again, my argument is simply "Homo religious".

"Homo religiosus" is a concept that proposes that humans have an inherent, natural inclination towards religion, or a religious experience. This idea suggests that humans are not just rational beings, but also beings who seek meaning, transcendence, and the sacred, regardless of their specific religious background. It's a widely debated topic in philosophy, religion, and anthropology, with various interpretations and perspectives.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Core Idea:
Inherent Religious Drive:
"Homo religiosus" posits that humans have a fundamental, built-in need or drive to find meaning beyond the material world, often expressed through religious beliefs and practices.
Beyond Materialism:
It suggests that human existence is not solely defined by scientific understanding and material needs, but also by a desire for the spiritual and transcendent.
Universality:
The concept argues that this religious inclination is a universal aspect of human experience, present across different cultures and throughout history.
Variations and Interpretations:
Eliade's Perspective:
Mircea Eliade saw "homo religiosus" as a fundamental aspect of human nature, where the sacred and profane are intertwined in various proportions. He emphasized the importance of sacred spaces and rituals in shaping religious experience.
Jünger's Perspective:
Ernst Jünger viewed "homo religiosus" as a human need for religion, which could be filled by various systems of belief and practice.
"Homo religiosus" as a starting point for ethics:
Some scholars use "homo religiosus" to explore the origins of morality and ethics, suggesting that religious beliefs and practices can shape our understanding of good and evil.
Counterarguments:
Naturalistic Explanations:
Some argue that religious beliefs are not innate but rather cultural or social constructs that evolved to fulfill certain psychological or social needs.
Atheism/Secularism:
Atheists and secularists may reject the notion of an inherent religious drive, arguing that human nature can be understood without reference to religion.
Key Considerations:
Evolutionary Origins:
Some researchers explore the evolutionary origins of religious behavior, seeking to understand how and why religious practices may have emerged in human societies.
Religious Freedom:
Cambridge University Press & Assessment examines the concept of "homo religiosus" in relation to religious freedom, exploring the philosophical and ethical dimensions of the right to practice and believe as one chooses.
 


To end Professor,

Homo Religiosus-culture, Cognition, Emotion put this into your gizmo, your lap top, computer, but the conclusion is and our Gordon will like it with his irrational rational brain :) the link is far to long to post but here is the conclusion.

5. Conclusions
At this point the scientific opinions on “Homo religious” are divided, or they constitute a complex
understanding of this phenomenon. On one side lies researchers that argue the religious feeling is a cultural
phenomenon that has evolved with the development of human society; on the other hand we find neuro-imaging
studies indicating that in the human brain there are very well defined areas activating under the influence of
religious stimuli. The last category of views, in which we stand, suggests that religious feeling is a complex
phenomenon, with clear biological basis, and socio-cultural extensions.
Whatever view we accept, we are witnessing now the presence of simultaneous rational and irrational in a
world increasingly technicist and accurate. In terms of mental health, the concomitant presence of rational and
irrational in many people creates discomfort and imbalances of different amplitudes.



The last category of views, in which we stand, suggests that religious feeling is a complex
phenomenon, with clear biological basis, and socio-cultural extensions.


A clear biological basis, go on Prof admit it, we are Homo Religious" and more so much more, well I am ;D 8) :P ::)

Gonnagle.
Oh dear - what a lot of words, what a lot of bolding for unevidenced guff.

So you think religion is nature rather than nurture - well we are actually doing that experiment right now.

The UK is societally pretty agnostic in terms of whether someone is religious or not - so people can choose whether or not to be religious. Now if religion was nature rather than nurture you'd anticipate that the 'religious' gene (as it were) would predominate. So someone brought up (nurture) non-religious would likely find that 'religion' gene kicking in and would more often than not end up religious. The flip-side being that bringing up someone as religious (nurture) would be unnecessary as nature will just do its business and a religious adult will develop.

Is this what we see in our real world experiment - nope, not a bit. For someone to be religious as an adult it is pretty well a prerequisite that they were brought up religious (nurture) and actually pretty well universal that they will have been brought up in a specific religion that they retain as adults. Yet loads of people nurtured as religious end up rejecting religion as adults (they simply don't believe it) - that wouldn't happen if your thesis were correct. Yet bring someone up non-religious and they will almost certainly end up non religious as an adult.

So rather than there being a 'nature' push to being religious, there appears to be a 'nature' push to being non religious, which is only prevented by (often very heavy handed) societal and familial nurture to be religious.

Bottom line - faith and religion are learned, not inherent, traits. Or christian missionaries would have stumbled across previously 'unfound' tribes who seemed already to be christian. Never happens.

Gonnagle

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #879 on: April 16, 2025, 09:47:15 AM »
Dear Prof, a very good morning to you Sir,

Unevidenced guff :o well it is Googles attempt at this AI thingy, not my unevidenced guff.

But the conclusion at the end of my post was purely academical ( which you chose not to mention ).

Anyway Dear Prof, we could go around and around with this, I will allow others to make up there own minds.

My conclusion Prof from our brief discussion, this hoax, this obscure way of thinking that we, the Earth, the Universe, it is just some kind of very weird accident ( millions of weird accidents ) sorry but even in my wildest imaginations I just can't buy that.

Atheists of the world awake, a whole world of Agnosticism awaits.

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #880 on: April 16, 2025, 09:59:04 AM »
Dear Prof, a very good morning to you Sir,
And to you.

Unevidenced guff :o well it is Googles attempt at this AI thingy, not my unevidenced guff.
Someone else's unevidenced guff is no more nor less unevidenced than your own.

But the conclusion at the end of my post was purely academical ( which you chose not to mention ).
But for something to have academic credibility it needs to be supported by evidence, unlike your conclusion.

Anyway Dear Prof, we could go around and around with this, I will allow others to make up there own minds.
Sounds rather like an admission of defeat Gonners.

If religion were inherent rather than learned behaviour why would religions (pretty well all religions) establish complex initiation and upbringing nurturing rituals aimed at teaching children to be religious. They wouldn't need to as nature would simply take its course. But religions understand that their beliefs are learned behaviours and without nurturing religious belief in the next generation they are, basically, dead.

Non-religion - not so much - don't really need to do anything (no non-religious initiation ceremonies or learning required) - pretty well all those brought up in a non religious manner will comfortable stay non-religious as adults ... plus (in the UK) likely they will acquire about 50% of those brought up in a religious manner.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #881 on: April 16, 2025, 10:31:15 AM »
And to you.
Someone else's unevidenced guff is no more nor less unevidenced than your own.
But for something to have academic credibility it needs to be supported by evidence, unlike your conclusion.
Sounds rather like an admission of defeat Gonners.

If religion were inherent rather than learned behaviour why would religions (pretty well all religions) establish complex initiation and upbringing nurturing rituals aimed at teaching children to be religious. They wouldn't need to as nature would simply take its course. But religions understand that their beliefs are learned behaviours and without nurturing religious belief in the next generation they are, basically, dead.

Non-religion - not so much - don't really need to do anything (no non-religious initiation ceremonies or learning required) - pretty well all those brought up in a non religious manner will comfortable stay non-religious as adults ... plus (in the UK) likely they will acquire about 50% of those brought up in a religious manner.
You seem to be arguing that religion is both evolved but we don't inherit it.

Time, finally, for an explanation from you.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #882 on: April 16, 2025, 10:43:00 AM »
You seem to be arguing that religion is both evolved but we don't inherit it.

Time, finally, for an explanation from you.
We don't inherit it as a hereditary trait - i.e. via genes. It is nurture not nature.

What we do inherit is the ability to learn through our complex neurophysiology. We then need to establish complex societal structures to ensure that generational learning is effective as that learning and our ability to use that learning is what provides the evolutionary advantage. Those societal structures are also required to protect human offspring for many years while they remain exquisitely vulnerable. If those complex societal structures are not established then learning cannot take, nor is there protection for the young meaning they are unlikely to survive to breed.

So religion is learned behaviour in the same way as learning that certain plants are dangerous or that lack of hygiene leads to disease transmission etc etc. That doesn't mean it isn't important for human survival and evolutionary advantage (although I think it is the complex societal structures rather than religion per se), but that doesn't mean it isn't learned behaviour.

Gonnagle

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #883 on: April 16, 2025, 11:25:59 AM »
And to you.
Someone else's unevidenced guff is no more nor less unevidenced than your own.
But for something to have academic credibility it needs to be supported by evidence, unlike your conclusion.
Sounds rather like an admission of defeat Gonners.

If religion were inherent rather than learned behaviour why would religions (pretty well all religions) establish complex initiation and upbringing nurturing rituals aimed at teaching children to be religious. They wouldn't need to as nature would simply take its course. But religions understand that their beliefs are learned behaviours and without nurturing religious belief in the next generation they are, basically, dead.

Non-religion - not so much - don't really need to do anything (no non-religious initiation ceremonies or learning required) - pretty well all those brought up in a non religious manner will comfortable stay non-religious as adults ... plus (in the UK) likely they will acquire about 50% of those brought up in a religious manner.

Dear Prof,

Admission of defeat :P no the word for what I am is flummoxed.

But for something to have academic credibility it needs to be supported by evidence, unlike your conclusion.

Okay, I did say the link was long but it works and you have to verify you are human, you are human Prof :o

https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com/277811/1-s2.0-S1877042813X00102/1-s2.0-S1877042813009397/main.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjELr%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJGMEQCIElIeMT2PLNHXY848o81E5fYvvgcSuDEMPa43nXm6lE9AiAN6YlYMZodyrPBBPdaOu2LjuS1ij9hUIDd9NaneAun2CqzBQhDEAUaDDA1OTAwMzU0Njg2NSIM46UJjNTzjsuoAnYvKpAFBc%2BGXzKK%2FYIthq%2BM8B%2Ff1snW%2B3ohgNQejgT8Nt0FFWrw1Cnm%2BPdJNJBE28pVfR%2F0eWEwf12w8BU5qXFc3eEgVsWjGC49fXJxqVquMDa9wKt1%2B9W0oj7HicyO0Aj%2BtEj4xqfiCQzgkICTBPu5G6D0QdXiueYL%2FL75Q2v6mYGWCb3GmxMem%2FQRfgmksYa%2B7dMgZFirdsLnh0jCmYPEd9LjwEe0lFe5hd1EbVEMlLOo5XcuA535OuZOSYfl9bSf%2FDFIeT9cI96lXcI0sXRKirSgt9vHpvbhjGPbQG34Wgz%2Fat%2Fh8qvco2VevJve39hbSlB5fQrDoPPbZhQtUcN1Uk4YUfA9k8%2FqUBFgRaJm9fkX5nCO6LAdy%2BxhwV0NuZvWGoMRPHFRCJODrgKS2dkf2izz82S6%2FejMQMn54b1laDhuXUWdwZ%2BWZcaDvwYv3PeQh2lRgSCN8%2Bp%2BhEaVGur6HA8U%2BVXgV%2FKSxIymjyvFXdE2pmve%2FBY7gsyBEm40up5JywpGxe8XgiLdFyIQMslq4E5WbkdYAXQJnHI7aZPaqGNp97HZC57r373Z70OnjgoGjs1Uc6AwZbfKh0WsrstAVTpbvZlfRMFN%2F0%2FRky7jVrVW5FeH5UFsTPvBL7%2Blmy7D7K6uDBzhux8CwnnQolt1xk%2B3uCpq7FUeI5Mw8cHt9e4Qg9oQqTkb4%2Bx%2BPL6SDnyvy9XkSo9NiVE%2BuTDH8pu8JByOVrq%2FLySm8iIeLfhKgYyNDRUHzVyZX04GbmZMRBoptPE6jsIvsKQLUlfPRI1VdVNKgb53yJ3nVJ9dpnm21YfWg3WBrQ0OHpn%2BdReLF1drYKToduft1L32bPWZZAp7jQAm7gr4B3fyiNdtv6Co9hBR0mUwzvb9vwY6sgEBJtLtDFHza0koxTr3crL6tcVvpiMwT9WP7lhxbm6lokgH5%2FmfRs2X3h0I%2B7eW6e2M0qxOqJAkoyuoe1weVKIf54WBzymYsaH46cql2XpCoMKpn34cdtaBUyzhfC0ZGNZtwuPXdrbYLAG1w8tquJHwVPKsCbEnEMU5EuvUEqqDPXl2yQCurAifU%2Fip5IZ4PTZ6NPfhLQ3jv1GEnggY3YtGUnhQbXTeCOlVdAZ5O6GyTB58&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20250416T100958Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAQ3PHCVTYYPGHOUND%2F20250416%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=16a09a3b493a942d072d21169470b30df59d4f709b032713dd6794dadde498b1&hash=4c4524cffdb01c796fa1ccf9ef86bd76e02cbc200cd2fed6a8c56feb9290ebbe&host=68042c943591013ac2b2430a89b270f6af2c76d8dfd086a07176afe7c76c2c61&pii=S1877042813009397&tid=spdf-79863557-041e-476c-938a-707284b34138&sid=125879b91be3394a8b08b2f7bd75c0ad3d66gxrqb&type=client&tsoh=d3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkaXJlY3QuY29t&rh=d3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkaXJlY3QuY29t&ua=1d04595750510251065104&rr=9312e3e6cfca653f&cc=gb

And because I am a Christian and we are told to share✝️

https://www.google.com/search?q=pie+jesu+voces8+youtube&sca_esv=df4bbd1ea1a8a665&rlz=1C1UEAD_enGB1122GB1122&sxsrf=AHTn8zqpWLoIq0kpl1ikOfSnGx1TwXFe-g%3A1744798524688&ei=PIP_Z_TfKZ2hhbIPvZPyoAw&oq=pie+jesu+voces&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiDnBpZSBqZXN1IHZvY2VzKgIIADIFEAAYgAQyCxAuGNQCGBYYChgeMgsQLhjUAhgWGAoYHjILEAAYgAQYhgMYigUyCBAAGIAEGKIEMgUQABjvBTIFEAAY7wUyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBEi4SlDvEFjXNHABeAGQAQCYAY8BoAGcBaoBAzEuNbgBAcgBAPgBAZgCB6ACrQbCAgoQABiwAxjWBBhHwgINEAAYgAQYsAMYQxiKBcICDhAAGLADGOQCGNYE2AEBwgITEC4YsAMY1AIY1gQYRxjIA9gBAcICExAuGIAEGLADGEMYyAMYigXYAQHCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIKEC4YgAQYQxiKBcICCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFwgIFEC4YgATCAgoQABiABBgUGIcCwgIGEAAYFhgemAMAiAYBkAYTugYGCAEQARgJkgcDMS42oAeHPrIHAzAuNrgHkwY&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:04809681,vid:o9al6HNOgSo,st:0

Let your soul soar, I know you have a soul Prof, it may be slightly crusty with un use but I am here to fix that❤️

Atheism :-[ its so! so unhuman  :o

Gonnagle.

I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #884 on: April 16, 2025, 11:54:57 AM »
Dear Prof,

Admission of defeat :P no the word for what I am is flummoxed.

But for something to have academic credibility it needs to be supported by evidence, unlike your conclusion.

Okay, I did say the link was long but it works and you have to verify you are human, you are human Prof :o

https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com/277811/1-s2.0-S1877042813X00102/1-s2.0-S1877042813009397/main.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjELr%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJGMEQCIElIeMT2PLNHXY848o81E5fYvvgcSuDEMPa43nXm6lE9AiAN6YlYMZodyrPBBPdaOu2LjuS1ij9hUIDd9NaneAun2CqzBQhDEAUaDDA1OTAwMzU0Njg2NSIM46UJjNTzjsuoAnYvKpAFBc%2BGXzKK%2FYIthq%2BM8B%2Ff1snW%2B3ohgNQejgT8Nt0FFWrw1Cnm%2BPdJNJBE28pVfR%2F0eWEwf12w8BU5qXFc3eEgVsWjGC49fXJxqVquMDa9wKt1%2B9W0oj7HicyO0Aj%2BtEj4xqfiCQzgkICTBPu5G6D0QdXiueYL%2FL75Q2v6mYGWCb3GmxMem%2FQRfgmksYa%2B7dMgZFirdsLnh0jCmYPEd9LjwEe0lFe5hd1EbVEMlLOo5XcuA535OuZOSYfl9bSf%2FDFIeT9cI96lXcI0sXRKirSgt9vHpvbhjGPbQG34Wgz%2Fat%2Fh8qvco2VevJve39hbSlB5fQrDoPPbZhQtUcN1Uk4YUfA9k8%2FqUBFgRaJm9fkX5nCO6LAdy%2BxhwV0NuZvWGoMRPHFRCJODrgKS2dkf2izz82S6%2FejMQMn54b1laDhuXUWdwZ%2BWZcaDvwYv3PeQh2lRgSCN8%2Bp%2BhEaVGur6HA8U%2BVXgV%2FKSxIymjyvFXdE2pmve%2FBY7gsyBEm40up5JywpGxe8XgiLdFyIQMslq4E5WbkdYAXQJnHI7aZPaqGNp97HZC57r373Z70OnjgoGjs1Uc6AwZbfKh0WsrstAVTpbvZlfRMFN%2F0%2FRky7jVrVW5FeH5UFsTPvBL7%2Blmy7D7K6uDBzhux8CwnnQolt1xk%2B3uCpq7FUeI5Mw8cHt9e4Qg9oQqTkb4%2Bx%2BPL6SDnyvy9XkSo9NiVE%2BuTDH8pu8JByOVrq%2FLySm8iIeLfhKgYyNDRUHzVyZX04GbmZMRBoptPE6jsIvsKQLUlfPRI1VdVNKgb53yJ3nVJ9dpnm21YfWg3WBrQ0OHpn%2BdReLF1drYKToduft1L32bPWZZAp7jQAm7gr4B3fyiNdtv6Co9hBR0mUwzvb9vwY6sgEBJtLtDFHza0koxTr3crL6tcVvpiMwT9WP7lhxbm6lokgH5%2FmfRs2X3h0I%2B7eW6e2M0qxOqJAkoyuoe1weVKIf54WBzymYsaH46cql2XpCoMKpn34cdtaBUyzhfC0ZGNZtwuPXdrbYLAG1w8tquJHwVPKsCbEnEMU5EuvUEqqDPXl2yQCurAifU%2Fip5IZ4PTZ6NPfhLQ3jv1GEnggY3YtGUnhQbXTeCOlVdAZ5O6GyTB58&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20250416T100958Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAQ3PHCVTYYPGHOUND%2F20250416%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=16a09a3b493a942d072d21169470b30df59d4f709b032713dd6794dadde498b1&hash=4c4524cffdb01c796fa1ccf9ef86bd76e02cbc200cd2fed6a8c56feb9290ebbe&host=68042c943591013ac2b2430a89b270f6af2c76d8dfd086a07176afe7c76c2c61&pii=S1877042813009397&tid=spdf-79863557-041e-476c-938a-707284b34138&sid=125879b91be3394a8b08b2f7bd75c0ad3d66gxrqb&type=client&tsoh=d3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkaXJlY3QuY29t&rh=d3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkaXJlY3QuY29t&ua=1d04595750510251065104&rr=9312e3e6cfca653f&cc=gb
As an academic I can click straight in - no need for any overt verification.

But what an underwhelming piece of 'academic' work - all over the place. It's just wishful handwaving and argumentum ad populum - lot's of people are religious so it must be innate. Rubbish argument. And then there is Fig.1 - a random set of fMRI images with zero explanation of what the relevance may be with the figure legend of 'The religious brain' - hmm academic figure legends are expected to explain something.

So it looks like a load of rubbish to me. But you'll accuse me of bias. So rather than you or I arguing the toss, let's throw it to the academic community shall we. If academic colleagues/peers think a piece of work is important and high quality they cite it in their own work. Hence 'citations' is the gold standard by which academic works are judged - great work is cited a lot, rubbish work cited, well, not so much.

And your link tells me how many times this paper has been cited by others in the 12 years since publication:

Cited by (0)

In other words since publication not one single academic author has thought this piece of work good enough and important enough to cite - tells you all you need to know. The academic community think this work is irrelevant.

Just for reference - my academic papers from about 12 years ago typically have about 100-150 citations.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #885 on: April 16, 2025, 12:04:29 PM »
And because I am a Christian and we are told to share✝️

https://www.google.com/search?q=pie+jesu+voces8+youtube&sca_esv=df4bbd1ea1a8a665&rlz=1C1UEAD_enGB1122GB1122&sxsrf=AHTn8zqpWLoIq0kpl1ikOfSnGx1TwXFe-g%3A1744798524688&ei=PIP_Z_TfKZ2hhbIPvZPyoAw&oq=pie+jesu+voces&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiDnBpZSBqZXN1IHZvY2VzKgIIADIFEAAYgAQyCxAuGNQCGBYYChgeMgsQLhjUAhgWGAoYHjILEAAYgAQYhgMYigUyCBAAGIAEGKIEMgUQABjvBTIFEAAY7wUyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBEi4SlDvEFjXNHABeAGQAQCYAY8BoAGcBaoBAzEuNbgBAcgBAPgBAZgCB6ACrQbCAgoQABiwAxjWBBhHwgINEAAYgAQYsAMYQxiKBcICDhAAGLADGOQCGNYE2AEBwgITEC4YsAMY1AIY1gQYRxjIA9gBAcICExAuGIAEGLADGEMYyAMYigXYAQHCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIKEC4YgAQYQxiKBcICCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFwgIFEC4YgATCAgoQABiABBgUGIcCwgIGEAAYFhgemAMAiAYBkAYTugYGCAEQARgJkgcDMS42oAeHPrIHAzAuNrgHkwY&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:04809681,vid:o9al6HNOgSo,st:0

Let your soul soar, I know you have a soul Prof, it may be slightly crusty with un use but I am here to fix that❤️

Atheism :-[ its so! so unhuman  :o

Gonnagle.
Yup - lovely.

So lovely that I sang the Faure Requiem a couple of weeks ago with my choir. Not the Pie Jesu as that part is for solo soprano voice (in our case a semi chorus of teenagers from a nearby youth choir), but I was in the main choir just a few feet away.

And you do know that Faure wasn't religious - agnostic bordering on atheist.

Gonnagle

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #886 on: April 16, 2025, 12:15:07 PM »
As an academic I can click straight in - no need for any overt verification.

But what an underwhelming piece of 'academic' work - all over the place. It's just wishful handwaving and argumentum ad populum - lot's of people are religious so it must be innate. Rubbish argument. And then there is Fig.1 - a random set of fMRI images with zero explanation of what the relevance may be with the figure legend of 'The religious brain' - hmm academic figure legends are expected to explain something.

So it looks like a load of rubbish to me. But you'll accuse me of bias. So rather than you or I arguing the toss, let's throw it to the academic community shall we. If academic colleagues/peers think a piece of work is important and high quality they cite it in their own work. Hence 'citations' is the gold standard by which academic works are judged - great work is cited a lot, rubbish work cited, well, not so much.

And your link tells me how many times this paper has been cited by others in the 12 years since publication:

Cited by (0)

In other words since publication not one single academic author has thought this piece of work good enough and important enough to cite - tells you all you need to know. The academic community think this work is irrelevant.

Just for reference - my academic papers from about 12 years ago typically have about 100-150 citations.

Dear Prof,

Ah! peer reviewed, cited by academicals, got you Prof, that is got you Prof, thank you for the education ::)

Yup - lovely.

So lovely that I sang the Faure Requiem a couple of weeks ago with my choir. Not the Pie Jesu as that part is for solo soprano voice (in our case a semi chorus of teenagers from a nearby youth choir), but I was in the main choir just a few feet away.

And you do know that Faure wasn't religious - agnostic bordering on atheist.


So glad you enjoyed it, and no I did not know Faure wasn't religious and that Dear Prof is another story for another day, so called Atheists who write soul soaring religious music, I wonder what inspires them✝️

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #887 on: April 16, 2025, 02:25:02 PM »
o glad you enjoyed it, and no I did not know Faure wasn't religious and that Dear Prof is another story for another day, so called Atheists who write soul soaring religious music, I wonder what inspires them✝️
Well in the case of Faure's requiem, he wrote it after his mother had died. And originally he deliberately changed the normal format to omit the usual separate Dies irae section. This was likely because he wanted to focus on the peace rather than judgement.

But in a broader sense, don't forget that most of the composers we are considering are professional composers - they may a living from what they write. So over the centuries this has often been based on what other people have commissioned them to write, rather than what they might have chosen to write themselves.

And I think in the case of the classic sacred pieces there is an element of an interesting exercise for a professional composer. Effectively how can I write a mass (or requiem mass) that follows the expected structure and uses the required text but feels different, new and exciting. To an extent I think not being overtly religious may help in that respect as it allows the composer to take more risks, perhaps not feel they have to be quite as tied to tradition and reverence as a highly religious person may be.

But I think when someone is a renown composer, whether or not they are deeply religious is a secondary matter - when writing they are first and foremost acting as a composer.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2025, 02:38:31 PM by ProfessorDavey »

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #888 on: April 16, 2025, 03:16:54 PM »
We don't inherit it as a hereditary trait - i.e. via genes. It is nurture not nature.

What we do inherit is the ability to learn through our complex neurophysiology.
Not sure it's an either or situation. In the sense that we create new neural pathways depending on how we use our brains. As our brains have plasticity, there is a feedback loop whereby nurture/ experience changes physical connections in the brain and so it makes sense that genetics and adaptation will play some part in the degree of change in the brain that is caused by stimulus and experience. Studies have found that "In most cases, the initial formation of a synapse occurs independent of stimulation. But if that synapse is not used, the brain will “prune” or eliminate it. Conversely, the more often a connection is used, the stronger it becomes in a physical sense, with more dendritic spines connecting to one another and a stronger net connection over time."

So if we use our brains for religion, we create neural pathways in our brain through this stimulus and experience of religion, that then feedback to create more thoughts and interpretations related to religion. If we stop using our brain for religion, there is a different effect on the structure of the brain and the feedback loop of its thoughts.

Quote
So religion is learned behaviour in the same way as learning that certain plants are dangerous or that lack of hygiene leads to disease transmission etc etc. That doesn't mean it isn't important for human survival and evolutionary advantage (although I think it is the complex societal structures rather than religion per se), but that doesn't mean it isn't learned behaviour.
Presumably religion is a particular type of complex societal structure with its own unique characteristics and unique advantages - when people stop experiencing those advantages or if they perceive that the costs outweigh any advantages they will stop making use of religion - until maybe some stimulus leads them to perceive the advantages are more than the costs, which may or may not happen.
Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

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Gonnagle

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #889 on: April 16, 2025, 03:19:39 PM »
Well in the case of Faure's requiem, he wrote it after his mother had died. And originally he deliberately changed the normal format to omit the usual separate Dies irae section. This was likely because he wanted to focus on the peace rather than judgement.

But in a broader sense, don't forget that most of the composers we are considering are professional composers - they may a living from what they write. So over the centuries this has often been based on what other people have commissioned them to write, rather than what they might have chosen to write themselves.

And I think in the case of the classic sacred pieces there is an element of an interesting exercise for a professional composer. Effectively how can I write a mass (or requiem mass) that follows the expected structure and uses the required text but feels different, new and exciting. To an extent I think not being overtly religious may help in that respect as it allows the composer to take more risks, perhaps not feel they have to be quite as tied to tradition and reverence as a highly religious person may be.

But I think when someone is a renown composer, whether or not they are deeply religious is a secondary matter - when writing they are first and foremost acting as a composer.

Dear Prof,

Well that is definitely one theory, but most composers ( modern composers ) pop, rock soul, classical when asked what inspired them usually give a reason, war, injustice, love or a beautiful woman. religious music?

Gonnagle.


I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #890 on: April 16, 2025, 03:41:49 PM »
Dear Prof,

Well that is definitely one theory, but most composers ( modern composers ) pop, rock soul, classical when asked what inspired them usually give a reason, war, injustice, love or a beautiful woman. religious music?

Gonnagle.
That may be true for (some) modern composers, but it certainly wasn't the case through the main classical music periods when composers were employed by patrons to write what their patron wanted them to write. So if their employer (which might have been a major cathedral or an aristocratic family) wanted them to write a mass, or a requiem mass etc that's what they wrote. Whether they believed or not was irrelevant - they were writing to order.

And actually that remains the case today for choral music - I've sung a load of sacred choral music written over the past few decades. In most cases if you look at the first page of the score you will see who commissioned the piece. In some cases - e.g. James Macmillan the composer is deeply religious and clearly the subject is incredibly important to him. In other cases e.g. John Rutter, the composer isn't religious at all (although he is probably the most renown living British composer of sacred choral music and carols).

My choir have commissioned a fair number of pieces over the years - those we commission are, of course, interested in both the artistic and professional challenge of producing a new piece and getting paid for it (not just for the initial composing but also if in due course it gets recorded and/or performed regularly). Whether or not the composer is religious has never been a factor as we are dealing with a professional engagement, just as you might be if engaging a soloist to sing in a sacred piece.


Gonnagle

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #891 on: April 16, 2025, 03:55:58 PM »
That may be true for (some) modern composers, but it certainly wasn't the case through the main classical music periods when composers were employed by patrons to write what their patron wanted them to write. So if their employer (which might have been a major cathedral or an aristocratic family) wanted them to write a mass, or a requiem mass etc that's what they wrote. Whether they believed or not was irrelevant - they were writing to order.

And actually that remains the case today for choral music - I've sung a load of sacred choral music written over the past few decades. In most cases if you look at the first page of the score you will see who commissioned the piece. In some cases - e.g. James Macmillan the composer is deeply religious and clearly the subject is incredibly important to him. In other cases e.g. John Rutter, the composer isn't religious at all (although he is probably the most renown living British composer of sacred choral music and carols).

My choir have commissioned a fair number of pieces over the years - those we commission are, of course, interested in both the artistic and professional challenge of producing a new piece and getting paid for it (not just for the initial composing but also if in due course it gets recorded and/or performed regularly). Whether or not the composer is religious has never been a factor as we are dealing with a professional engagement, just as you might be if engaging a soloist to sing in a sacred piece.

Dear Prof,

I get your point, I really do, I don't agree with your point, only because at a very basic level there must be some kind of inspiration, and it does my wee Christian heart the power of good to know a Atheist sings Religious music, God Bless you✝️

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #892 on: April 16, 2025, 04:23:29 PM »
Dear Prof,

I get your point, I really do, I don't agree with your point, only because at a very basic level there must be some kind of inspiration,
Yup - the inspiration is to write great music - surely you can see that would be the key inspiration for a person who has devoted their life to being a composer.

... and it does my wee Christian heart the power of good to know a Atheist sings Religious music, God Bless you✝️

Gonnagle.
Welcome to the world of choral singing. Once upon a time sacred music was written to be used during worship. Now most of the great sacred choral works are never used in worship - nope they are performed by professional and amateur singers in concerts. And the same goes for newly written pieces, that despite being a mass setting will never see the light of day in a mass.

And choral societies up and down the country are stuffed full of people whose prime motivation is to sing - some of those people are highly religious (plenty in my choral society) but plenty of others are hoary old atheists such as myself. Without those choral societies (and professional choirs) with their religious and non-religious members audiences would never get the chance to hear Mozart Requiem, Bach St John Passion, Handel's Messiah etc etc etc.

If sacred choral music was left solely to worshippers and worship it would have died out years ago.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #893 on: April 16, 2025, 04:26:41 PM »
... and it does my wee Christian heart the power of good to know a Atheist sings Religious music, God Bless you✝️

Gonnagle.
I sing because I love singing and because I feel I have a responsibility to turn up and perform regardless of whether I believe in the words or not. Choral singing is a team game.

However I've known people in my choir who have refused to sing pieces which included text from the Koran (cos they were christian). That seems to fundamentally miss the point of being in a performing choral society. On one occasion the individual wanted to sit out this particular piece in the concert, but sing in all the other pieces. Our music director (a religious guy) quite rightly told her that she either sung in every piece in the concert or none.

Gonnagle

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #894 on: April 16, 2025, 04:35:15 PM »
Dear Prof,

How's this.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110714103828.htm#:~:text=The%20studies%20(both%20analytical%20and,impulse%20of%20the%20human%20mind.

The £1.9 million project involved 57 researchers who conducted over 40 separate studies in 20 countries representing a diverse range of cultures.


1.9 million :o

We have gathered a body of evidence that suggests that religion is a common fact of human nature across different societies


Gonnagle.

I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #895 on: April 16, 2025, 04:37:57 PM »
Dear Prof,

I get your point, I really do, I don't agree with your point, only because at a very basic level there must be some kind of inspiration, and it does my wee Christian heart the power of good to know a Atheist sings Religious music, God Bless you✝️

Gonnagle.

Heavens, Gonners  - does it really surprise you that a large number of atheists love and sometimes sing and play religious music? For the record, one of our top atheists here - bluehillside - has gone on record as saying he considers Bach's St Matthew Passion to be the greatest musical composition ever written. It would certainly have been my judgment when I was younger and was 'religious' and also sang. I might rate Bach's B minor Mass higher these days, but perhaps not so much. However, much more significant than figures like Prof, blue and myself are the number of atheist (or damn near) composers who have written magnificent works on religious themes - Berlioz, Verdi and even Wagner (in Parsifal) come to mind.
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

Gonnagle

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #896 on: April 16, 2025, 04:53:23 PM »
Dear Prof,

Choral singing is a team game.

No argument whatsoever, but where does that beautiful sound come from, sorry I am doing it an injustice, beautiful does not even come close to describing it, and as I am often told, how does this evolved monkey/ape type brain produce this beautiful, rapturous, soul inspiring, divine yes I will use this word, divine sound, as I will keep saying we are more, so much more.

Gonnagle.

Dear Dicky,
who asked you :-X
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #897 on: April 16, 2025, 05:00:14 PM »
Dear Prof,

Choral singing is a team game.

No argument whatsoever, but where does that beautiful sound come from, sorry I am doing it an injustice, beautiful does not even come close to describing it, and as I am often told, how does this evolved monkey/ape type brain produce this beautiful, rapturous, soul inspiring, divine yes I will use this word, divine sound, as I will keep saying we are more, so much more.

Gonnagle.

Dear Dicky,
who asked you :-X
My pennyworth is often priceless...
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

Gonnagle

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #898 on: April 16, 2025, 05:08:33 PM »
My pennyworth is often priceless...

Dear Dickie,

Beyond the riches of King Solomon ;D And it is nice to see you appealing to the Heavens, choral singing Atheists, I think you are all really closet Christians, Atheists my erky 8)

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️
« Reply #899 on: April 16, 2025, 05:13:03 PM »
Dear Prof,

How's this.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110714103828.htm#:~:text=The%20studies%20(both%20analytical%20and,impulse%20of%20the%20human%20mind.

The £1.9 million project involved 57 researchers who conducted over 40 separate studies in 20 countries representing a diverse range of cultures.



1.9 million :o

We have gathered a body of evidence that suggests that religion is a common fact of human nature across different societies


Gonnagle.
Blimey - I hope they give their £1.9M back if there conclusion is that religion is a common fact of human nature across different societies - no shit Sherlock, there was me thinking that religions only existed in Iceland!

And from the link we have this humdinger:

'Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a box in which she could not see. Children aged three believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers are not all-seeing and all knowing.'

So how exactly did those kids aged three come to understand that there might be a thing called god and that this thing called god might be all-seeing and all-knowing. Is it innate or maybe, just maybe, because by the age of three they have been told and taught by adults in their society that there is a thing called god that is all-seeing and all-knowing. And maybe, just maybe, the point here isn't that young children innately believe in god, but that young children tend to believe what they are told by adults is true.

You might as well conclude that because three year olds think that a red-cloaked fat bearded guy will bring them presents on 25th Dec that human babies innately believe in Father Christmas. No they don't, they believe in Father Christmas because they are told he exists.

100% nurture, not nature.