Committed atheist found!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Written by Lucy Mangan who describes herself as “a committed atheist”, whatever that is?

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/apr/21/pilgrimage-the-road-through-the-alps-review-so-wonderful-that-my-faith-in-celebrities-is-restored

[Sebastian Toe]

Do you have a view as to what it might be?

[Gonnagle]

Do you have a view as to what it might be?

Dear Seb Toe,

God Dodger

And I see you are also a fan of wee Albert, so here he is at his very best, enjoy❤️

"I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations.

Gonnagle.

[ProfessorDavey]

"I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations.

Well in that case I would suspect one, or many authors of the books and one or many librarians curating those books. I would not suspect goddidit.

And to make the leap to the universe - well substitute natural and physical laws/properties for authors/librarians and job done. Again no need to goddidit. To equate lack of complete understanding with god is classic god of the gaps non-sense.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

Biscuits take them.

I post academic stuff, you mock, I post probably the greatest mind the world has ever known, you mock.

What about one of your own, big noise in the world of Atheism.

“Darwin’s dangerous idea,” Dennett writes, is that Bach’s music, Christianity, human culture, the human mind, and Homo sapiens “all exist as fruits of a single tree, the Tree of Life,” which “created itself, not in a miraculous, instantaneous whoosh, but slowly, slowly.” He asks, “Is this Tree of Life a God one could worship? Pray to? Fear? Probably not.” But, he says, it is “greater than anything any of us will ever conceive of in detail worthy of its detail. . . . I could not pray to it, but I can stand in affirmation of its magnificence. This world is sacred.”


To my mind, saying exactly what Einstein is saying.

it is “greater than anything any of us will ever conceive of in detail worthy of its detail. . . . I could not pray to it, but I can stand in affirmation of its magnificence.


Affirmation.

the action or process of affirming something.

Gonnagle.

[ProfessorDavey]

Dear Prof,

Biscuits take them.

I post academic stuff, you mock, I post probably the greatest mind the world has ever known, you mock.

I'm not mocking Gonners - I just disagree with the premise that you'd somehow conclude 'god' from the library example.

What about one of your own, big noise in the world of Atheism.

What is this 'world of atheism' you speak of gonners. There is nothing that binds atheists together except not believing in something. Is there a 'world' of people who don't believe in Thor, or a 'world' of people who don't believe in leprechauns.

“Darwin’s dangerous idea,” Dennett writes, is that Bach’s music, Christianity, human culture, the human mind, and Homo sapiens “all exist as fruits of a single tree, the Tree of Life,” which “created itself, not in a miraculous, instantaneous whoosh, but slowly, slowly.” He asks, “Is this Tree of Life a God one could worship? Pray to? Fear? Probably not.” But, he says, it is “greater than anything any of us will ever conceive of in detail worthy of its detail. . . . I could not pray to it, but I can stand in affirmation of its magnificence. This world is sacred.”


To my mind, saying exactly what Einstein is saying.

it is “greater than anything any of us will ever conceive of in detail worthy of its detail. . . . I could not pray to it, but I can stand in affirmation of its magnificence.


Affirmation.

the action or process of affirming something.

Gonnagle.

Well I would argue that you need to see these things from two perspectives, one objective and one subjective. So, yes in an objective sense Bach's music is certainly the product of human neurophysiology and also just physics in its most fundamental sense, just as a magnificent sunset is physics. But from a human subjective perspective the objectivity doesn't alter the impact that it may have on us as individual humans in a subjective manner.

But I also think that a magnificent sunset is somewhat devalued if you try to claim it to be the product of some man-made god. That ascribes an objective importance to humans that I don't think we have. Nature (and Bach) to my mind are so much more awesome when considered to be what they actually are objectively while also recognising how important they feel to us subjectively. To blur the distinctions by shoe-horning 'god' devalues both the magnificent objectivity of nature (and how irrelevant we are as humans in a cosmic sense) and the importance of subjective emotions to us as humans.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do you have a view as to what it might be?

I'm the one asking the question.
As far as I know, you are an atheist. Would you, as Lucy Mangan has, describe yourself as a committed atheist?

 Do you think atheists like yourself should be committed?

[Sebastian Toe]

 Do you think atheists like yourself should be committed?

When Vlad told his friends earlier that he was going be a comedian and write some funny online content...they all laughed.

They're not laughing now!

[Gonnagle]

When Vlad told his friends earlier that he was going be a comedian and write some funny online content...they all laughed.

They're not laughing now!

Dear Seb,

Come on! never mind the God question, be human for ten seconds, that was funny, Vlad old boy, thank you for bringing a smile and a chuckle to my life

Gonnagle.

[Sebastian Toe]

As far as I know, you are an atheist.

You don't know as much as you think you do!

Which kind of spoils your last statement, sorry!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You don't know as much as you think you do!

Which kind of spoils your last statement, sorry!

Sorry for the mix up. Trying to think why I had you down as an atheist.

A committed atheist would at the very least be someone who had a commitment to merely lacking faith in God. But I'm stretched to think about how that differs from being uncommitted. We may never find out since if atheists were to have a statement of faith it could well be "Ve ask ze qvestions, not you"

[Outrider]

Sorry for the mix up. Trying to think why I had you down as an atheist.

A committed atheist would at the very least be someone who had a commitment to merely lacking faith in God. But I'm stretched to think about how that differs from being uncommitted. We may never find out since if atheists were to have a statement of faith it could well be "Ve ask ze qvestions, not you"

I'll bite, as an atheist.

I find the idea of being 'committed' to it somewhat nonsensical. The only rationale that makes sense as a path to atheism is that the various claims somehow don't make sense for one reason or another. To be committed to the idea that those claims don't make sense would be to somehow stop listening to the claims, to not just not care but to actively avoid hearing more in case something suddenly starts to add up for you.

I can guess that the 'committed' refers to the notion of following the evidence, having a rationale and the like, in which case it's not the atheism to which they're committed, but rather a rational philosophy - at best I think it's a clumsy expression, at worst it's just nonsensical so far as I can see. Ultimately, the only person who can tell you what she means is her.

Or the gods, obviously, because they know everything

O.

[Sebastian Toe]

Sorry for the mix up. Trying to think why I had you down as an atheist.

A committed atheist would at the very least be someone who had a commitment to merely lacking faith in God. But I'm stretched to think about how that differs from being uncommitted. We may never find out since if atheists were to have a statement of faith it could well be "Ve ask ze qvestions, not you"

I don't get the "committed" bit either.

[ProfessorDavey]

I don't get the "committed" bit either.

He neither - committed to what?

I've also hear people use the term 'convinced atheist', but this also seems almost to imply that the person claims to know that god does not exist, which seems to be a step too far. I think adding these terms is a kind of 'yes, I really, really am atheist' approach. Perhaps because there are some theists who seem to assume that in their heart of hearts atheists really deep down believe god exists but are in denial (hence the non-sense goddodging pejorative term).

But news for those folk - for this atheist it is completely the reverse - in my heart of hearts and really deep down I do not believe that god exists. But for a while I tried to convince myself (against my real belief) that god existed. I was an atheist in denial - I wasn't goddodging, but atheism-dodging. I came to a point where I stopped pretending - and recognise I did not believe in god as my conscience had told me all along. Ah the inner peace when you can finally accept who you are and accept on the outside what you feel on the inside.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And yet, Lucy Mangan the Guardian journalist professes to  be a committed Atheist.

Has she or is she letting the side down?

Has her rejection of God some how gone wrong?

Is this woman a pariah now amongst the non religious fraternity?

[ProfessorDavey]

And yet, Lucy Mangan the Guardian journalist professes to  be a committed Atheist.

Apparently so - but if you want to know why she described herself thus I suggest you address that to her.

Has she or is she letting the side down?

Letting what side down - from where I stand atheists don't represent a side any more than people who don't play football represent a side.

Has her rejection of God some how gone wrong?

Does she reject god or just not believe in god - again a question for her.

Is this woman a pariah now amongst the non religious fraternity?

What fraternity (see my comment about 'representing a side'). She's entitled to describe herself in any way she feels appropriate. And it will be for her to justify any terms she uses not you, me or anyone else on this MB.

[Sebastian Toe]

And yet, Lucy Mangan the Guardian journalist professes to  be a committed Atheist.

Has she or is she letting the side down?

Has her rejection of God some how gone wrong?

Is this woman a pariah now amongst the non religious fraternity?

The above is a prime example of someone with an unhealthy obsession with some people that he fantasises are something that they clearly are not.

[Gordon]

And yet, Lucy Mangan the Guardian journalist professes to  be a committed Atheist.

Has she or is she letting the side down?

Has her rejection of God some how gone wrong?

Is this woman a pariah now amongst the non religious fraternity?

What a strange wee world you live in, Vlad.

[Maeght]

And yet, Lucy Mangan the Guardian journalist professes to  be a committed Atheist.

Has she or is she letting the side down?

Has her rejection of God some how gone wrong?

Is this woman a pariah now amongst the non religious fraternity?

Of course not.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What a strange wee world you live in, Vlad.

Maybe Gordon, but if there are Committed atheists going about don’t you think the public Should be as well informed as possible?

[Gordon]

Maybe Gordon, but if there are Committed atheists going about don’t you think the public Should be as well informed as possible?

Generally speaking, I don't think the public care how many atheists or theists there are going about as long as they behave themselves - and I don't recall reading or hearing concerns about rampaging gangs of any variations of atheists or theists.

Tell you what though, here in Scotland the last census (2022) showed that the numbers of people saying that religion played no part in their lives has increased dramatically (note: this doesn't mean they are all atheists), so it seems unlikely that the presence of atheists would be the 'talk of the Steamie' here in Scotland.

Perhaps your imagination is going through another overactive spell.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Generally speaking, I don't think the public care how many atheists or theists there are going about as long as they behave themselves - and I don't recall reading or hearing concerns about rampaging gangs of any variations of atheists or theists.

Tell you what though, here in Scotland the last census (2022) showed that the numbers of people saying that religion played no part in their lives has increased dramatically (note: this doesn't mean they are all atheists), so it seems unlikely that the presence of atheists would be the 'talk of the Steamie' here in Scotland.

Perhaps your imagination is going through another overactive spell.

I think you’ll find attendance at steamies has declined even further with the loss not entirely a positive thing. Still as you brought it up we can see the decline in church going as another symptom in the decline of the collective activity. Think the decline in mass viewing of TV.

[Gordon]

I think you’ll find attendance at steamies has declined even further with the loss not entirely a positive thing. Still as you brought it up we can see the decline in church going as another symptom in the decline of the collective activity. Think the decline in mass viewing of TV.

Perhaps the decline in church going is simply reflective of the decline of religiosity in general, as is the case here in Scotland as the last census confirmed.

I'd be hesitant to draw comparisons with the likes of TV watching though since I'd imagine (though I've no personal experience to call on) that while Christian church services still contain the same basic elements they did decades ago: hymns, prayers, sermons and bible readings, how TV is consumed has changed dramatically with technological changes: there is now streaming 'on demand', copious channels to choose from and programmes that never appear on terrestrial channels.

[Stranger]

Maybe Gordon, but if there are Committed atheists going about don’t you think the public Should be as well informed as possible?

Who would care? I'm not actually sure what a 'committed' atheist is; maybe that they don't think of themselves as an agnostic atheist? But, either way, I can't see why the public in general would give a flying fuck.

[Stranger]

God Dodger

What, exactly, is this 'god' thingy that people are 'dodging'?

In discussions after your triumphant return, I'm not at all sure what you mean by 'God'. Our Alan is pretty explicit about what he means, as is Vlad, at least most of the time (don't mention simulated universes), but your good self, not so much (although I may have missed something).

You can hardly accuse people of dodging something that you can't define or explain...