The Pope has died

[Roses]

Pope Francis died in the early hours of this morning, which was a surprise as yesterday he looked a bit better. In my opinion he was the best Pope in my lifetime.

[ad_orientem]

If JD Vance offers to pray for you, you should be worried.

[Steve H]

Unfortunately, the next one will be a conservative, because they always alternate liberals with conservatives.

[ProfessorDavey]

Unfortunately, the next one will be a conservative, because they always alternate liberals with conservatives.

Well I think it is worse than that.

Realistically I can only remember 3 popes in my lifetime - Benedict was clearly very conservative and didn't just talk the conservative talk, he also walked the conservative walk.

But JP2 and Francis were portrayed as being modernisers, liberals so to speak. But this seemed to be all talk - the reality is that neither seem to have made any progress in actually modernising the RCC - so they were modernisers and liberals in name only.

And while the RCC trundles along in its unchanging conservative manner society moves on - typically in a much more liberal manner. Just think about attitudes towards women and gay people, as examples, now compared to 1978 when JP2 became pope. So perhaps in 1978 the RCCs position wasn't too far away from mainstream societal positions, but as the RCC refuses to reform and modernise the gulf between its rigid positions and societal norms grows ever wider.

[Dicky Underpants]

If JD Vance offers to pray for you, you should be worried.

Quite so, definitely the kiss of death having a meeting with Vancy boy just as you're recovering from serious illness.

[Roses]

Quite so, definitely the kiss of death having a meeting with Vancy boy just as you're recovering from serious illness.

I agree. Maybe Vance prayed for the Pope to depart from this world!

[Spud]

Very nice music at the funeral. Would be nice to have a translation of the songs.

[Alan Burns]

Well I think it is worse than that.

Realistically I can only remember 3 popes in my lifetime - Benedict was clearly very conservative and didn't just talk the conservative talk, he also walked the conservative walk.

But JP2 and Francis were portrayed as being modernisers, liberals so to speak. But this seemed to be all talk - the reality is that neither seem to have made any progress in actually modernising the RCC - so they were modernisers and liberals in name only.

And while the RCC trundles along in its unchanging conservative manner society moves on - typically in a much more liberal manner. Just think about attitudes towards women and gay people, as examples, now compared to 1978 when JP2 became pope. So perhaps in 1978 the RCCs position wasn't too far away from mainstream societal positions, but as the RCC refuses to reform and modernise the gulf between its rigid positions and societal norms grows ever wider.

Obvious conclusions from a non believer.
The truth is that God's will and love for mankind does not change - what does cause change is the increasing drift away from faith and trust in God's love which is replaced by human pride in presuming that we have no need for God as we head towards self centred goals and lose sight of the true meaning of life.

[ProfessorDavey]

Obvious conclusions from a non believer.

Patronising comment from a believer.

The truth is that God's will and love for mankind does not change - what does cause change is the increasing drift away from faith and trust in God's love which is replaced by human pride in presuming that we have no need for God as we head towards self centred goals and lose sight of the true meaning of life.

Regardless of whether you consider god's will to be unchanging, the reality is that RCC doctrinal interpretation and practise can and does change (even if the pace of change is glacial).

So the point is whether Francis, who is portrayed as a liberal and a moderniser, actually enacted any meaningful modernisation and liberalisation within the RCC during his 12 years as pope. My view would be 'no' - lots of warm words about not judging gays etc but actually no meaningful change whatsoever.