Football 2019 - 2020

[ad_orientem]

The wins for West Ham and Watford must have been a bit sickening for Norwich after their unexpected victory got them closer to the teams above.

Yeah. When I watched Norwich's openning game, although they lost to Liverpool 3-1 (I think), I thought they looked bright and had a chance of staying up. But as someone else just said, they looked doomed now.

[ad_orientem]

Points on the table are always better than games in hand when you're near the bottom.

Absolutely!

[jeremyp]

Not sure I agree with that - if you are being pushed you have to keep winning (or rather not losing) if you are miles ahead I'm sure it is pretty difficult to keep that momentum going when you've got plenty of elbow room to lose or draw a couple without being drawn back into a scrap. Just look at last season's astonishing run in with Man City on 98 its just pipping Liverpool on 97. But the key thing is that both just kept winning - Man City won their last 14 games, Liverpool their last 9.
I think there is always an element of luck in these matters - luck, in your favour, is what turns a good season into a great one, and conversely turns an OK one into a terrible one.

And although Arsenal's undefeated season is incredible in a symbolic manner, being undefeated is no guarantee of success - indeed, theoretically a team could go unbeaten all season draw all 38 games and be relegated on 38 points.

So for the sake of arguments lets assume Liverpool win their last 10 games to finish on 109 points from a possible 114 with a record of 36 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss. While they'd not have the 'unbeaten' symbolism of Arsenal could you really argue that Arsenal's record of 90 points from 26 wins, 12 draws, 0 losses is actually better. Personally I don't think so.

I think you've misunderstood what I mean by astonishing. I don't mean that the Arsenal team were somehow gods of football that  year. I mean, it's statistically astonishing in the sense that a fairly ordinary champion team (in terms of number of points scored) was able to avoid defeat for 38 consecutive games.

[jeremyp]

True - but Norwich look doomed.

Given their goal difference, they are two wins and a draw away from safety. That's probably too much.

I think Aston Villa and Bournemouth were most affected by Watford and West Ham's great results at the weekend, even though neither lost (in the league) and Aston Villa didn't even play.

West Ham and Watford are only not in the bottom three by virtue of goal difference. Brighton are not in the  bottom three by virtue of two points given  their goal difference. If they get one less win  than everybody below them, they are gone. Everybody below Newcastle is current scrapping.

Points on the table are always better than games in hand when you're near the bottom.

Yes, because you have to assume you are going to lose those games.

[ProfessorDavey]

Normal service is restored - Liverpool win, Watford lose.

[Nearly Sane]

A triumph for Auchinleck Talbot


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52381370

[ad_orientem]

It's hard to see how the Premier League can start has hoped in June. As well as the problem of playing at neutral grounds, players are already testing positive for the virus. I fear this will be pushed through no matter what for fear of lost television revenue, with player safety and the integrity of the league being ignored. The league meets tomorrow. We'll see.

[ProfessorDavey]

Anyone watch any of the Bundesliga games at the weekend?

I watched a bit of the Bayern Munich game - strange atmosphere - I wonder whether the tv companies need to add crowd noise - the equivalent of the old 'canned laughter' in comedy shows. I think it might add a better atmosphere for the watcher and I imagine pretty standard AI techniques could be used to fit the level of 'canned' crowd fervour to the state of the game.

[jeremyp]

It's hard to see how the Premier League can start has hoped in June. As well as the problem of playing at neutral grounds, players are already testing positive for the virus. I fear this will be pushed through no matter what for fear of lost television revenue, with player safety and the integrity of the league being ignored. The league meets tomorrow. We'll see.

I'm sorry to say this but part of me would be very amused if they cancelled the rest of the league and voided it - I'm not a Liverpool supporter. In fact, I think it would be absolutely hilarious.

Dragging myself back to some form of objectivity, if Liverpool were not so far ahead that they are almost certain to win, I would say cancel the rest of the season. It should have ended by about now anyway. Give it up and start again in August. Instead of having endless debates about how to restart everything without causing extra risk, just stop and concentrate on next season.

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm sorry to say this but part of me would be very amused if they cancelled the rest of the league and voided it - I'm not a Liverpool supporter. In fact, I think it would be absolutely hilarious.

Dragging myself back to some form of objectivity, if Liverpool were not so far ahead that they are almost certain to win, I would say cancel the rest of the season. It should have ended by about now anyway. Give it up and start again in August. Instead of having endless debates about how to restart everything without causing extra risk, just stop and concentrate on next season.

If you ended the season now you'd have to determine champions, champion's league places and relegation on results to date in the same way they have done for lower leagues. So Liverpool would win the league anyhow.

The notion that somehow the league should be voided to stop Liverpool winning the league is rather pathetic, not least because to date Liverpool's season is the best ever in terms of points dropped - to suggest they shouldn't win the league is non-sense. The only way that they shouldn't win the league is if the season is completed and in some bizarre reversal of form they lose sufficient points in the last 9 games to allow Man City or Leicester to overtake them. Otherwise, whether the league is completed or not they are worthy winners.

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm sorry to say this but part of me would be very amused if they cancelled the rest of the league and voided it - I'm not a Liverpool supporter. In fact, I think it would be absolutely hilarious.

Dragging myself back to some form of objectivity, if Liverpool were not so far ahead that they are almost certain to win, I would say cancel the rest of the season. It should have ended by about now anyway. Give it up and start again in August. Instead of having endless debates about how to restart everything without causing extra risk, just stop and concentrate on next season.

Reading an article about how to decide final placings if the season doesn't restart.

There are two proposals - first an average points per game measure, which simple factors up points per game to date. The second is a weighted measure which additionally takes into account who teams are still to play and whether the remaining games are home or away, with home and away form considered.

The big difference is at the bottom of the table - under the former measure Bournemouth are relegated along with Villa and Norwich. Under the latter Bournemouth survive and are replaced by West Ham (look away Ad O).

Frankly given that Liverpool are so dominant the whole season should be decided on results against Liverpool - so Watford champions - makes up for the fact that the club are riddled with coronavirus and in open revolt.

[ProfessorDavey]

Well we are finally back up and running. For the first time ever I've subscribed to Sky sports for a bit of a football-fest for the next few weeks (and then some cricket). Kind of treating it as a substitute for the Euros tournament which would also have had games thick and fast.

So I watched most of both games last night and it was clear that that players lack full match fitness, but plenty to talk about. How on earth Sheffield U's goal wasn't given is beyond me. Weirdly in the days before goal-line technology I think this would have been given but the officials now rely so much on the technology when it doesn't work I don't think they feel empowered to over-rule.

Oh and David Luis is a liability - but then we've all known that for ages

[ProfessorDavey]

As we follow the final stages of the season, some records to look out for that might fall to Liverpool (or may not).

Current standing is played 29 - won 27, draw 1, loss 1 - 82pts.

9 games to go

Record points tally in top flight English season - 100
Record number of wins in top flight English season - 32

And if we broaden to the major leagues in Europe (England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France) - the best ever record is by Juventus in Italy in 2013/14 with a record of 33 wins, 3 draws, 2 defeats - 102 pts

So all to play for - Liverpool may fall short of achieving the best ever English top flight season, but they could post the best ever season across all five major European leagues.

[ProfessorDavey]

As we follow the final stages of the season, some records to look out for that might fall to Liverpool (or may not).

Current standing is played 29 - won 27, draw 1, loss 1 - 82pts.

9 games to go

Record points tally in top flight English season - 100
Record number of wins in top flight English season - 32

And if we broaden to the major leagues in Europe (England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France) - the best ever record is by Juventus in Italy in 2013/14 with a record of 33 wins, 3 draws, 2 defeats - 102 pts

So all to play for - Liverpool may fall short of achieving the best ever English top flight season, but they could post the best ever season across all five major European leagues.

Congratulations to Liverpool - incredibly worthy winners.

One record they've already broken, which I didn't mention, is that they have won the league with more games to play than any team in the previous 130+ years of the Premier League and the previous first division.

So Liverpool have won the league with 7 games to go - the previous record was 5 games to go shared by:

Man U 1907-8; Everton 1984-5; Man U 2000-01 and Man City 2017-18.

I suspect there will be other records falling before the end of the season.

[Roses]

The way the Liverpool fans have behaved is idiotic to say the very least, football is only game after all, nothing special. The club should de-fan every single one of them for possibly putting lives in danger as they were not socially distancing. 

[Anchorman]

Not particularly devoted to the senior game north or south of the border, but I have to confess a liking for Liverpool since I was a nipper - well, I'm only eleven miles from Glenbuck, with all that that holds in the hearts of the 'Kop.

[ProfessorDavey]

The way the Liverpool fans have behaved is idiotic to say the very least ...

I agree - they shouldn't have been out celebrating without social distancing. But I guess many will have seen other mass gatherings (e.g. BLM and counter demonstrations, Bournemouth beach etc) and thought, well if it's OK for them, why not for us.

football is only game after all, nothing special.

To you, but not to many people. Winning the league again after 30 years is a huge, huge moment for many people and for the city itself.

[Roses]

I agree - they shouldn't have been out celebrating without social distancing. But I guess many will have seen other mass gatherings (e.g. BLM and counter demonstrations) and thought, well if it's OK for them, why not for us.
To you, but not to many people. Winning the league again after 30 years is a huge, huge moment for many people and for the city itself.

HOW VERY SAD!

[ProfessorDavey]

HOW VERY SAD!

Why?

[ad_orientem]

Not particularly devoted to the senior game north or south of the border, but I have to confess a liking for Liverpool since I was a nipper - well, I'm only eleven miles from Glenbuck, with all that that holds in the hearts of the 'Kop.

Horrible bunch. Love a stanley knife.

[Anchorman]

HOW VERY SAD!

   


In what way is it 'sad'?
OK, I condemn the thuggery which goes with too many footbal supporters, but investing hope in your team can be positive and indeed enervating.
My local team has enjoyed unparralelled success in the Junior game here, and has given my town, which still suffers from the destruction of heavy industry 25 years ago, a reason to unite and celebrate, and a community spirit which myst be seen to be believed.
EEKA PEEKA.

[jeremyp]

   


In what way is it 'sad'?
OK, I condemn the thuggery which goes with too many footbal supporters, but investing hope in your team can be positive and indeed enervating.

I do not think that word means what you think it means. Perhaps you meant "invigorating"

[ProfessorDavey]

Another astonishing statistic that I saw in the Times on Saturday about Liverpool's 4-0 win over Crystal Palace.

Liverpool became the first team since records began in 2008 to deny their opponents a single touch in their penalty area. That is the first time this has happened in about 4,500 matches in the Premier League.

[Nearly Sane]

Congratulations to Liverpool - incredibly worthy winners.

One record they've already broken, which I didn't mention, is that they have won the league with more games to play than any team in the previous 130+ years of the Premier League and the previous first division.

So Liverpool have won the league with 7 games to go - the previous record was 5 games to go shared by:

Man U 1907-8; Everton 1984-5; Man U 2000-01 and Man City 2017-18.

I suspect there will be other records falling before the end of the season.

Is that combined with the latest date to win it? Would be dependent on how early or any anomalous seasons would have worked.

[ProfessorDavey]

Is that combined with the latest date to win it? Would be dependent on how early or any anomalous seasons would have worked.

The record is about games to go, so makes no difference when those games are played. No other team has won the title with 7 games still to play in the entire history of the top flight dating back to 1888.

But you are right that Liverpool's title is bizarre in being conferred record-breakingly early in terms of games played, but record-breakingly late in terms of actual date.