Biden considering Australian request to drop Assange charges

[Nearly Sane]

If he does, then can see it being a big issue in the election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68784298

[jeremyp]

If he does, then can see it being a big issue in the election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68784298

I don't think so. I think most people have forgotten about Assange.

And good riddance.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't think so. I think most people have forgotten about Assange.

And good riddance.

I meant the US one, apologies for not being clear . And yes, I doubt many people in the US will remember or even have heard of Assange but if Biden drops the charges, they will hear about him constantly, and it will be about how Biden has pardoned a 'traitor', and how Biden is therfore a 'traitor' who will support giving US secrets away. And if I was advising Biden, I would be telling him not to.

[Steve H]

Assange is an irresponsible narcissist. Bang him up.

[jeremyp]

I meant the US one, apologies for not being clear .

Yes, that's what I assumed. I don't think most Americans care about Assange anymore.

And yes, I doubt many people in the US will remember or even have heard of Assange but if Biden drops the charges, they will hear about him constantly, and it will be about how Biden has pardoned a 'traitor', and how Biden is therfore a 'traitor' who will support giving US secrets away. And if I was advising Biden, I would be telling him not to.

That will only happen if the media gives a toss. I don't think they do. I think the American Right has far better stories to attack Biden with.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, that's what I assumed. I don't think most Americans care about Assange anymore.
That will only happen if the media gives a toss. I don't think they do. I think the American Right has far better stories to attack Biden with.

Two words, Willie Horton.

[Nearly Sane]

Assange is an irresponsible narcissist. Bang him up.

He is banged up. And not sure that's a criminal charge yet.

[jeremyp]

Assange is an irresponsible narcissist. Bang him up.

Neither of those traits are illegal either here or in the USA. What are you going to bang him up for?

For the record, I agree with you on his character flaws. I also think he is probably a rapist, but those charges have been dropped. The charges that haven't been dropped are somewhat dubious.

[jeremyp]

Two words, Willie Horton.

I don't see the two cases as being analogous.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't see the two cases as being analogous.

  If you can make a governor look weak as being soft on crime with someone most the voters had never heard of, you can make a President loom soft on traitors. Analogous doesn't mean identical. You just make an attack ad which shows Assange in the worst possible light (easily done), and hammer home the President allowed a person who gave away state secrets to go free on his watch, while giving sicker to Hamas. Can you trust him in the White House?

[jeremyp]

  If you can make a governor look week as being soft on crime with someone most the voters had never heard of, you can make a President loom soft on traitors. Analogous doesn't mean identical. You just make an attack ad which shows Assange in the worst possible light (easily done), and hammer home the President allowed a person who gave away state secrets to go free on his watch, while giving sicker to Hamas. Can you trust him in the White House?

But Horton was an already convicted murderer who was let out of prison on a furlough scheme that was supported by Dukakis. Moreover, he committed his last crimes in the year before the election, so they would have been fresh in the mids of the electorate.

[Nearly Sane]

But Horton was an already convicted murderer who was let out of prison on a furlough scheme that was supported by Dukakis. Moreover, he committed his last crimes in the year before the election, so they would have been fresh in the mids of the electorate.

Analogy does not mean exactly the same.

 If Biden drops the charges  it will be done in an election year. People don't need to know the details. He's been avoiding extradition from the time of Obama. Trump didn't let this 'traitor out'. Biden has. What's Biden doing? Does he not care about traitors? Is he a traitor? Is he just to senile to even know about Assange? US soldiers died because of Assange, and Biden is freeing him! And he's a rapist too but then you all know about Biden...

It's a gift to a Trump campaign. 

[ad_orientem]

This is why Assange is rightfully banged up.

[jeremyp]

Analogy does not mean exactly the same.

It also doesn't mean if one, then the other.

Argument by analogy is a fallacy.

If Biden drops the charges  it will be done in an election year. People don't need to know the details. He's been avoiding extradition from the time of Obama. Trump didn't let this 'traitor out'. Biden has. What's Biden doing? Does he not care about traitors? Is he a traitor? Is he just to senile to even know about Assange? US soldiers died because of Assange, and Biden is freeing him! And he's a rapist too but then you all know about Biden...

It's a gift to a Trump campaign.

Still the assumption that anybody knows or cares about Assange.

[jeremyp]

This is why Assange is rightfully banged up.

No it isn't. He was originally banged up for breaking his bail conditions. He's still banged up now because the Americans are trying to extradite him and he is considered a flight risk - for good reason.

As for the sentiments expressed in your meme. Yes I think they are pretty bad but, then, I think the Taliban is pretty bad. Were somebody to say something similar about people who betrayed my country and my government, I might even agree with them, except that I am against the death penalty.

[Nearly Sane]

It also doesn't mean if one, then the other.

Argument by analogy is a fallacy.

Still the assumption that anybody knows or cares about Assange.

I'm not making the argument by analogy. You are attempting to do so. I'm pointing out that it doesn't need media support for an attack ad to work. I've covered what I think would be said, and that the prominence of the individual isn't important.

A Trump campaign will make sure people  know who Assange is if Biden drops the charges. They have an easy hook to make Biden look like he supports a 'rapist traitor'. If it were to happen they would also link it to Chelsea Manning, and Biden's support for trans ideology, and paint that as being traitorous.

[jeremyp]

I'm not making the argument by analogy.

Why did you bring it up then?

[Nearly Sane]

Why did you bring it up then?

As an example of what an attack ad can do. It doesn't have to be a prominent issue before the ad.

[ad_orientem]

No it isn't. He was originally banged up for breaking his bail conditions. He's still banged up now because the Americans are trying to extradite him and he is considered a flight risk - for good reason.

As for the sentiments expressed in your meme. Yes I think they are pretty bad but, then, I think the Taliban is pretty bad. Were somebody to say something similar about people who betrayed my country and my government, I might even agree with them, except that I am against the death penalty.

I may have understood you incorrectly, but Assange's sentiments here refer to informants against the Taliban. It got anti-Taliban Afgans and American soldiers killed.

[jeremyp]

As an example of what an attack ad can do. It doesn't have to be a prominent issue before the ad.

I could probably dig out hundreds of attack ads that had no effect.

Assange isn't going to be a problem for Biden. Hunter Biden might be, but not Assange.

[jeremyp]

I may have understood you incorrectly, but Assange's sentiments here refer to informants against the Taliban. It got anti-Taliban Afgans and American soldiers killed.

If somebody exposed Russian spies in Finland, how would you feel about that person? Would you be posting memes about how they don't care about Russians spies?

[Nearly Sane]

I could probably dig out hundreds of attack ads that had no effect.

Assange isn't going to be a problem for Biden. Hunter Biden might be, but not Assange.

Obviously it will depend on whether Biden drops the charges but if he does, a virtual.pint, and a real one if you ever make it to Glasgow, on whether it becomes a problem or not for Biden?

[ad_orientem]

If somebody exposed Russian spies in Finland, how would you feel about that person? Would you be posting memes about how they don't care about Russians spies?

No, of course not, but then I don't think it's really comparable. For a start, the spies wouldn't be killed, merely ejected from the country (which has actually happened recently with Russian spies acting as diplomats), or at worst, put in prison.