From Necessary Entity to Christian God.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Prof,
I think I have answered your post by replying to Sanes, but there you go again, strawman, mentioning the worst case, I am not equating the fundamental Atheist on this forum to Westboro.

Gonnagle.

So what is a 'fundamentalist atheist'?

[Gonnagle]

where is the thunder in my post?

Dear Sane,

Not your post, nice try

Gonnagle.

[Gordon]

Dear Gordon, Important matters first, I hope you kind Sir are taking care of your good self❤️

Of course there is a difference! the fundamental Atheist does not believe in God but you are just the same as the fundamental Christian.

This forum proves it.

The fundamental Atheist have done exactly want the fundamental Christians have done, dug their heels in.

There's more, so much more, time for a coffee check my emails and see what's happening in the real world

Gonnagle.

For me the Bible has no relevance whatsoever, and plays no part in my life (and never has), so it's not a case of digging heels in but more a case of 'it really doesn't matter to me'.

However, some of those who do take it seriously seem to presume that what is important for them is equally important for everyone and no matter how much I treat it with disdain it hasn't gone away. Therefore I think I'm justified in making that clear - just as theists feel justified in claiming that the Bible is still relevant.

It may be that some atheists are more strident in their critique of Christianity but that doesn't imply that their atheism is fundamentally different from other atheists: all atheists simply lack a belief in Gods.

[Gonnagle]

For me the Bible has no relevance whatsoever, and plays no part in my life (and never has), so it's not a case of digging heels in but more a case of 'it really doesn't matter to me'.

However, some of those who do take it seriously seem to presume that what is important for them is equally important for everyone and no matter how much I treat it with disdain it hasn't gone away. Therefore I think I'm justified in making that clear - just as theists feel justified in claiming that the Bible is still relevant.

It may be that some atheists are more strident in their critique of Christianity but that doesn't imply that their atheism is fundamentally different from other atheists: all atheists simply lack a belief in Gods.

Dear Gordon,

Lets try this, your software is giving me a hard time

it really doesn't matter to me'. You could have fooled me old son.

just as theists feel justified in claiming that the Bible is still relevant.

Oh it is still very much relevant today.

It may be that some atheists are more strident in their critique of Christianity but that doesn't imply that their atheism is fundamentally different from other atheists: all atheists simply lack a belief in Gods.

Critique of there Holy book, which you refuse to try and understand.

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

For me the Bible has no relevance whatsoever, and plays no part in my life (and never has), so it's not a case of digging heels in but more a case of 'it really doesn't matter to me'.

However, some of those who do take it seriously seem to presume that what is important for them is equally important for everyone and no matter how much I treat it with disdain it hasn't gone away. Therefore I think I'm justified in making that clear - just as theists feel justified in claiming that the Bible is still relevant.

It may be that some atheists are more strident in their critique of Christianity but that doesn't imply that their atheism is fundamentally different from other atheists: all atheists simply lack a belief in Gods.

Gordon, do you not see the irony of not wanting religion forced down one's throat and being a principal contributor to a forum on religion and ethics?

[Stranger]

The fundamental Atheist have done exactly want the fundamental Christians have done, dug their heels in.

This makes exactly no sense. What's a "fundamental Christian", what's an "Atheist" (as opposed to an atheist), and what's a "fundamental Atheist"?

Even if you meant fundamentalist, that only makes sense of "fundamentalist Christian". Maybe these mysterious "Atheists" have traditional teaching or a holy book to believe literally in, but us ordinary atheists don't.

And as you have declared yourself to be an atheist again (#36), it makes even less sense, unless you've joined this mysterious Atheist organisation...

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It may be that some atheists are more strident in their critique of Christianity but that doesn't imply that their atheism is fundamentally different from other atheists: all atheists simply lack a belief in Gods.

Here they are again, happy as can be, all good friends and jolly good company.

[Gordon]

Dear Gordon,

Lets try this, your software is giving me a hard time

it really doesn't matter to me'. You could have fooled me old son.

It doesn't, but for as long as it is a factor in society at large I'm as permitted to be negative about is just as theists are permitted to be positive about it.

just as theists feel justified in claiming that the Bible is still relevant.

Oh it is still very much relevant today.

But not to everyone.

It may be that some atheists are more strident in their critique of Christianity but that doesn't imply that their atheism is fundamentally different from other atheists: all atheists simply lack a belief in Gods.

Critique of there Holy book, which you refuse to try and understand.

Gonnagle.

It understand that it is largely ancient anecdote that mixes social history of a particular area with religious claims - there is nothing in it that I regard as being a serious proposition, so I don't see it as being either relevant or especially profound.

[Gordon]

Gordon, do you not see the irony of not wanting religion forced down one's throat and being a principal contributor to a forum on religion and ethics?

No - I didn't say it wasn't interesting.

[Nearly Sane]

Gordon, do you not see the irony of not wanting religion forced down one's throat and being a principal contributor to a forum on religion and ethics?

You are going have to explain where the irony is there.

[Enki]

Dear Gordon,

Lets try this, your software is giving me a hard time

it really doesn't matter to me'. You could have fooled me old son.

just as theists feel justified in claiming that the Bible is still relevant.

Oh it is still very much relevant today.

It may be that some atheists are more strident in their critique of Christianity but that doesn't imply that their atheism is fundamentally different from other atheists: all atheists simply lack a belief in Gods.

Critique of there Holy book, which you refuse to try and understand.

Gonnagle.

By digging your heels in by saying the bible is very much relevant today or by suggesting that Gordon refuses to try and understand the bible, does that make you a fundamental Christian then?

After all it was you who said:

The fundamental Atheist have done exactly want the fundamental Christians have done, dug their heels in.

 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You are going have to explain where the irony is there.

Where do you think people who are likely to be pushing religion are going to be?

[Gonnagle]

It doesn't, but for as long as it is a factor in society at large I'm as permitted to be negative about is just as theists are permitted to be positive about it.

But not to everyone.

It understand that it is largely ancient anecdote that mixes social history of a particular area with religious claims - there is nothing in it that I regard as being a serious proposition, so I don't see it as being either relevant or especially profound.

Dear Gordon, correct, but you are negative all the time.

there is nothing in it that I regard as being a serious proposition

Compassion, empathy, mans greed, injustice, mans inhumanity to man, but you don't see that, correction you don't want to see that, and I do apologise to old Dicky, his bait to bring out old Vlad has taken a different turn.

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

By digging your heels in by saying the bible is very much relevant today or by suggesting that Gordon refuses to try and understand the bible, does that make you a fundamental Christian then?

After all it was you who said:

 

I don't think people are into treatises, treaties, or statements of intent, or articles of faith, or mission statements, or manifestos, or references, or foundational documents these days.

They just want it "all sorted".

[Gonnagle]

Dear Enki,

Sorry I tried to post your whole post but it made no sense, not your post just when I hit the quote button

By digging your heels in by saying the bible is very much relevant today or by suggesting that Gordon refuses to try and understand the bible, does that make you a fundamental Christian then?


Fair question, am I a fundamental Christian, I don't think so, why? it has been explained to me why fundamental Christianity, the higher critique for what it is worth, and then along came Darwin, how dare they attack our Holy book, and so began fundamental Christianity, they dug their heels in, just like the fundamental Atheist.

Nope, not a fundie, simple Christian who follows the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ, or any other profound teaching, as long as it sounds a bit Christiany, sue me ✝️

Gonnagle.

[Gordon]

Dear Gordon, correct, but you are negative all the time.

there is nothing in it that I regard as being a serious proposition

Compassion, empathy, mans greed, injustice, mans inhumanity to man, but you don't see that, correction you don't want to see that, and I do apologise to old Dicky, his bait to bring out old Vlad has taken a different turn.

Gonnagle.

There are plenty of sources that address all those issues that, for me, have greater value than the Christian Bible: philosophy, poetry and literature. Pretty much all the characteristics you mention can be found in the work of Dickens (and many others).

[Nearly Sane]

Where do you think people who are likely to be pushing religion are going to be?

Discussion isn't 'forcing down your throat'.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Enki,

Sorry I tried to post your whole post but it made no sense, not your post just when I hit the quote button

By digging your heels in by saying the bible is very much relevant today or by suggesting that Gordon refuses to try and understand the bible, does that make you a fundamental Christian then?


Fair question, am I a fundamental Christian, I don't think so, why? it has been explained to me why fundamental Christianity, the higher critique for what it is worth, and then along came Darwin, how dare they attack our Holy book, and so began fundamental Christianity, they dug their heels in, just like the fundamental Atheist.

Nope, not a fundie, simple Christian who follows the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ, or any other profound teaching, as long as it sounds a bit Christiany, sue me ✝️

Gonnagle.

The thing is though the equivalent of atheist isn't Christian, it's theist, and in yerms of your theism you are, I think by your definition, though I'm still not totally clear on it, a fundamental theists.

[Gonnagle]

There are plenty of sources that address all those issues that, for me, have greater value than the Christian Bible: philosophy, poetry and literature. Pretty much all the characteristics you mention can be found in the work of Dickens (and many others).

Dear Gordon,

Dickens, cheers old son Now stop giving me ammunition, I am perfectly capable of dealing with the fundies on my own.

Charles Dickens was a Christian, but of a broad and somewhat unconventional variety. While his family was Anglican, he displayed a dislike for certain aspects of religious dogma, particularly evangelicalism and Roman Catholicism. He is described as having "deep religious convictions". He was also known to have shown an interest in Unitarian Christianity. Ultimately, Dickens's religious views were complex and not easily categorized into a specific denomination.
Here's a more detailed look:
Broad Christianity:
Dickens's religious views were generally Christian, but not tied to any particular sect.
Dislike of Dogma:
He openly criticized certain forms of religious practice, such as evangelicalism and Roman Catholicism.
Unitarian leanings:
In the 1840s, he showed an interest in Unitarian Christianity.
"The Life of Our Lord":
Dickens wrote a book for his children about the life of Jesus, suggesting a personal engagement with Christian faith.
"A Christmas Carol":
This story, while not explicitly religious, has been interpreted as having a strong moral and Christian undercurrent, with the spirits potentially representing divine intervention.
Influence on his work:
Dickens's concern for the poor and marginalized, often reflected in his novels, can be seen as stemming from his broader Christian values.

My thanks once again to AI

Gonnagle.

[Gordon]

But my point was that there are sources other than the Bible that portray the whole range of human behaviour. That Dickens had a Christian inclination doesn't really matter in that context of his writing being a source of descriptions of human nature.

Larkin wasn't religious but he still wrote 'Church Going'.

[Gonnagle]

But my point was that there are sources other than the Bible that portray the whole range of human behaviour. That Dickens had a Christian inclination doesn't really matter in that context of his writing being a source of descriptions of human nature.

Larkin wasn't religious but he still wrote 'Church Going'.

Dear Gordon,

Inclination Yes that's what I have an inclination

As for Mr Larkin, lovely poem, thank you👍 glad he took his bicycle clips off in reverence.

Now back to fundamental Atheism, lets talk Hitchens, Mr angry Atheist.

Do you think fundamental Christians are angry?

Gonnagle.

[Gordon]

Hard to say - I don't know any fundamentalist Christians to be able to give an opinion.

Some may be angry, or intolerant, I suppose - but then, anger and intolerance applies to all sorts of people and in relation to all sorts of topics about which people have strong feelings or an emotional attachment.

Our own dear city has instances of that.

[Gonnagle]

Hard to say - I don't know any fundamentalist Christians to be able to give an opinion.

Some may be angry, or intolerant, I suppose - but then, anger and intolerance applies to all sorts of people and in relation to all sorts of topics about which people have strong feelings or an emotional attachment.

Our own dear city has instances of that.

Dear Gordon,

Correct, all sorts of people.

Now the favourite tactic of the Fundie Christian is cherry picking, God says this, God says that, disregarding all the rest of the Bible teachings, ring any bells Gordon!

Gonnagle.

[Gordon]

Dear Gordon,

Correct, all sorts of people.

Now the favourite tactic of the Fundie Christian is cherry picking, God says this, God says that, disregarding all the rest of the Bible teachings, ring any bells Gordon!

Gonnagle.

Not really: that the Christian Bible contains such obvious nonsense in parts, lacks provenance, has been subject to uncertain translations, is largely anecdotal and where any mistakes or lies in it are beyond checking then, for me, it has no real value and I don't see it as a source of teaching or profundity.

Every time, though it doesn't happen to me often these days, I hear someone clerically inclined say anything along the lines of 'Jesus told us/showed us/taught us/etc' I consider that they cannot be certain of that even if they believe it themselves, or maybe it gives them a warm and cozy feeling: but, for me, since what Jesus allegedly said or did is indistinguishable from fiction, then it may as well be fiction.

Therefore - the Christian Bible really does mean nothing to me.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Not really: that the Christian Bible contains such obvious nonsense in parts, lacks provenance, has been subject to uncertain translations, is largely anecdotal and where any mistakes or lies in it are beyond checking then, for me, it has no real value and I don't see it as a source of teaching or profundity.

Every time, though it doesn't happen to me often these days, I hear someone clerically inclined say anything along the lines of 'Jesus told us/showed us/taught us/etc' I consider that they cannot be certain of that even if they believe it themselves, or maybe it gives them a warm and cozy feeling: but, for me, since what Jesus allegedly said or did is indistinguishable from fiction, then it may as well be fiction.

Therefore - the Christian Bible really does mean nothing to me.

Oh, Vienna.