Author Topic: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.  (Read 1781 times)

Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #125 on: Today at 03:24:40 PM »
Not really: that the Christian Bible contains such obvious nonsense in parts, lacks provenance, has been subject to uncertain translations, is largely anecdotal and where any mistakes or lies in it are beyond checking then, for me, it has no real value and I don't see it as a source of teaching or profundity.

Every time, though it doesn't happen to me often these days, I hear someone clerically inclined say anything along the lines of 'Jesus told us/showed us/taught us/etc' I consider that they cannot be certain of that even if they believe it themselves, or maybe it gives them a warm and cozy feeling: but, for me, since what Jesus allegedly said or did is indistinguishable from fiction, then it may as well be fiction.

Therefore - the Christian Bible really does mean nothing to me.

Dear Gordon,

Obvious nonsense! is this you at your miracles thing again? true fundieism ( my new word ) the fundamental Christian also thinks this, maybe I should not bother as you are displaying true fundieism.

Lacks provenance, the Holy Bible is probably the only book in existence that has been poured over, pondered, taken apart, looked at in fine detail and yet it still stands, why? well Gordon to the rescue again, anyone for Dickens, wait anyone for Shakespeare.

Uncertain translations, oh yes definitely give you that, fundie Christians and fundie Atheists alike. A rich tradition of Greek, Hebrew and Arabic mistranslation, I give you the word "Pistis" go off and research that one word, but you won't, why? because you are a fundamental Atheist, I am right and you are wrong says the fundamentalist, as he digs his heels in further.

Gonnagle.
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Gordon

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #126 on: Today at 03:43:31 PM »
Dear Gordon,

Obvious nonsense! is this you at your miracles thing again? true fundieism ( my new word ) the fundamental Christian also thinks this, maybe I should not bother as you are displaying true fundieism.

Lacks provenance, the Holy Bible is probably the only book in existence that has been poured over, pondered, taken apart, looked at in fine detail and yet it still stands, why? well Gordon to the rescue again, anyone for Dickens, wait anyone for Shakespeare.

Uncertain translations, oh yes definitely give you that, fundie Christians and fundie Atheists alike. A rich tradition of Greek, Hebrew and Arabic mistranslation, I give you the word "Pistis" go off and research that one word, but you won't, why? because you are a fundamental Atheist, I am right and you are wrong says the fundamentalist, as he digs his heels in further.

Gonnagle.

I know what 'pistis' means: but for me it isn't enough, and that the whole 'faith/trust/conviction' thing just isn't sufficient grounds to take the Christian Bible seriously.

It may have a long history of social influence and power politics over many centuries, though that is waning where we are, but that tradition is, for me, unconvincing given its core supernatural claims, and I don't see it as being remotely authoritative.

If you are, like me, 'pistis free' then the Bible is just a curious old book.

Enki

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #127 on: Today at 04:05:38 PM »
Here is an article on whether atheists can be fundamentalists. The article is 19 years old by A C Grayling. I found it quite interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/may/03/cananatheistbeafundamenta
Sometimes I wish my first word was 'quote,' so that on my death bed, my last words could be 'end quote.'
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Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #128 on: Today at 04:07:24 PM »
I know what 'pistis' means: but for me it isn't enough, and that the whole 'faith/trust/conviction' thing just isn't sufficient grounds to take the Christian Bible seriously.

It may have a long history of social influence and power politics over many centuries, though that is waning where we are, but that tradition is, for me, unconvincing given its core supernatural claims, and I don't see it as being remotely authoritative.

If you are, like me, 'pistis free' then the Bible is just a curious old book.

Dear Gordon,

Pistis free, oh dear !! ( please note the double exclamation marks ) I could list off a whole host of great scientific names but no, only to say science, all of science is riddled with Pistis.

Supernatural only until such times that they become Super-Natural.

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Gordon

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #129 on: Today at 04:13:05 PM »
Dear Gordon,

Pistis free, oh dear !! ( please note the double exclamation marks ) I could list off a whole host of great scientific names but no, only to say science, all of science is riddled with Pistis.

Supernatural only until such times that they become Super-Natural.

Gonnagle.

Science is based on methodological naturalism - religion isn't: they aren't the same thing.

Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #130 on: Today at 04:23:13 PM »
Dear Enki,

A whole link on exactly what I have been trying to convey, cheers ;)

Angry Atheist and a fundie.

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #131 on: Today at 04:30:30 PM »
Science is based on methodological naturalism - religion isn't: they aren't the same thing.

Dear Gordon,

Before the method what do you have?

Go on, say it, I dare you :P

Gonnagle.
« Last Edit: Today at 04:32:42 PM by Gonnagle »
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Gordon

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #132 on: Today at 04:38:10 PM »
Dear Gordon,

Before the method what do you have?

Go on, say it, I dare you :P

Gonnagle.

I've no idea what you mean.

Before having a method to investigate 'x' then, regarding 'x', there was only ignorance.

Enki

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #133 on: Today at 04:42:19 PM »
Dear Enki,

A whole link on exactly what I have been trying to convey, cheers ;)

Angry Atheist and a fundie.

Gonnagle.

Glad you enjoyed it. However the article is at least trying to be serious, a world away from your tongue in cheek, inconsistent, vague taunts. I'll leave you now to your somewhat inexplicable meanderings. ;) :D
Sometimes I wish my first word was 'quote,' so that on my death bed, my last words could be 'end quote.'
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Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #134 on: Today at 05:23:44 PM »
Glad you enjoyed it. However the article is at least trying to be serious, a world away from your tongue in cheek, inconsistent, vague taunts. I'll leave you now to your somewhat inexplicable meanderings. ;) :D

Dear Enki,

Serious but most definitely fundamentally Atheistic, tongue in cheek, 100% me, I enjoy this forum, especially doing battle with the intellectual Atheist mind ( that is not a compliment ) inconsistent, oh yes, I usually just go with the flow, vague, me! sorry anyone with two brain cells can follow my posts, I am not an intellectual ( first person to accuse me gets a virtual kick in the nuts ) what else, oh yes, inexplicable meanderings, nah sorry you are just having a wee pop at the Gonnagle, that is allowed.

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #135 on: Today at 05:26:01 PM »
I've no idea what you mean.

Before having a method to investigate 'x' then, regarding 'x', there was only ignorance.

Dear Gordon,

Come on say it, it is a human thing ;)

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Gordon

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #136 on: Today at 05:50:37 PM »
Dear Gordon,

Come on say it, it is a human thing ;)

Gonnagle.

I've still no idea what you are getting at: we act like humans all the time, and it seems human to me to understand that knowledge requires reliable methods, without which there is ignorance, and that some of the religious claims that some people make relate more to magical thinking than knowledge even if they are an aspect of humanity.

So, I think that claims of 'God' are magical thinking, in that they are devoid of reliable methods, and that the cultural and social connotations of Christianity are meaningless to me.

Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #137 on: Today at 06:02:42 PM »
I've still no idea what you are getting at: we act like humans all the time, and it seems human to me to understand that knowledge requires reliable methods, without which there is ignorance, and that some of the religious claims that some people make relate more to magical thinking than knowledge even if they are an aspect of humanity.

So, I think that claims of 'God' are magical thinking, in that they are devoid of reliable methods, and that the cultural and social connotations of Christianity are meaningless to me.

Dear Gordon,

I was about to have a conversation with Mr Grayling ( wonder if he would mind me calling him old AC ) but he can wait, the word you are unwilling to say is Faith, faith in your hypothesis, faith in your theory, faith in your idea, faith in your own imaginings, and then comes trial and error, but first faith.

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Gordon

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #138 on: Today at 06:13:49 PM »
Dear Gordon,

I was about to have a conversation with Mr Grayling ( wonder if he would mind me calling him old AC ) but he can wait, the word you are unwilling to say is Faith, faith in your hypothesis, faith in your theory, faith in your idea, faith in your own imaginings, and then comes trial and error, but first faith.

Gonnagle.

Not me: 'faith' in a religious sense would be alien to me since, as far as I can see, that kind of 'faith' presumes knowledge without adequate justification.

That is very different from an approach based on theory/hypothesis/method.


Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #139 on: Today at 06:21:52 PM »
Dear Gordon,

 Religious sense?

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Gordon

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #140 on: Today at 06:24:57 PM »
Dear Gordon,

 Religious sense?

Gonnagle.

Yep - unjustified belief (that dead people don't stay dead, etc).

Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #141 on: Today at 06:25:21 PM »
Here is an article on whether atheists can be fundamentalists. The article is 19 years old by A C Grayling. I found it quite interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/may/03/cananatheistbeafundamenta

Dear Enki,

My apologises, you did mention it was woefully out of date.

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #142 on: Today at 06:35:55 PM »
Yep - unjustified belief (that dead people don't stay dead, etc).

Dear Gordon,

Just checking who you are talking to, Hello forum any fundamental Christians on here nope a deafening silence, but almost sure there is a load of fundamental Atheists ;)

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️

Gordon

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #143 on: Today at 06:39:00 PM »
Or just 'common or garden' atheists, like me.

Gonnagle

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Re: From Necessary Entity to Christian God.
« Reply #144 on: Today at 06:54:48 PM »
Or just 'common or garden' atheists, like me.

Dear Gordon,

Aye right! or as the good Prof calls it, typical Atheist ( without the capitalisation ).

Supper time, Macaroni cheese with crusty bread :P

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️