Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Grace of God on April 02, 2018, 02:40:45 PM
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just looking for opinions...??
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Compared to that idiot in the White House Corbyn is very likeable, but then so is a rabid dog. ;D
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Yes, tons: he's an honest politician who believes in, and has worked for for decades, social justice, he opposes apartheid Israel, and he's an allotment holder. It's just a pity he's not pro-Europe.
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I admire his commitment to his principles even if they are not election winning, even though I do not agree with all of them.
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I used to think he was highly principled but then he didn't stick to them over Brexit.
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I used to think he was highly principled but then he didn't stick to them over Brexit.
In what sense did he not stick to them?
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Yes, tons: he's an honest politician who believes in, and has worked for for decades, social justice, he opposes apartheid Israel, and he's an allotment holder. It's just a pity he's not pro-Europe.
Well said.
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Yes, tons: he's an honest politician who believes in, and has worked for for decades, social justice, he opposes apartheid Israel, and he's an allotment holder. It's just a pity he's not pro-Europe.
Quite agree.
He is somewhat naive though - he's learning it's tough at the top in the hard way.
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Yes, tons: he's an honest politician who believes in, and has worked for for decades, social justice, he opposes apartheid Israel, and he's an allotment holder. It's just a pity he's not pro-Europe.
Yep. Doesn't make the party he leads electable, though.
It's hopelessly mired in division over too many things to be an effective opposition, never mind a government, unfortunately.
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In what sense did he not stick to them?
He half heartedly supported Remain but is a brexiter at heart. Had Labour had a genuinely strong pro remainer in charge, maybe the result of the referendum would have been different.
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just looking for opinions...??
Of all the party leaders he’s the one I’d like to share a meal with.
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Of all the party leaders he’s the one I’d like to share a meal with.
I've never met the leader of the Scottish Greens - Patrick Harvie - but from what he's said, I'd like to share a meal - and a dram - with him.
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He half heartedly supported Remain but is a brexiter at heart. Had Labour had a genuinely strong pro remainer in charge, maybe the result of the referendum would have been different.
I certainly agree that a stronger Labour campaign would have helped but I knew Corbyn was a Eurosceptic and so I don't really begrudge him for not getting behind the Remain campaign. It is, however, one of the reasons I will not vote Labour with him in charge.
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I certainly agree that a stronger Labour campaign would have helped but I knew Corbyn was a Eurosceptic and so I don't really begrudge him for not getting behind the Remain campaign. It is, however, one of the reasons I will not vote Labour with him in charge.
It wouldn’t matter were it not official Labour Party policy at the time and he party leader. From the back benches he could say what he liked. From the front he just looked lukewarm. That isn’t strong leadership.
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It wouldn’t matter were it not official Labour Party policy at the time and he party leader. From the back benches he could say what he liked. From the front he just looked lukewarm. That isn’t strong leadership.
Yes and he supported the Remain campaign as the Labour leader. he just (perhaps understandably) didn't do a good job of it. It happened again in the election with the policy on the Trident replacement. He toed the party line in spite of being personally against it.
I would have resigned if the party wouldn't support my position on fundamental issues of policy, but I never said he is a good leader. That's the other reason I won't vote Labour with him in charge - he's absolutely useless.
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Yes and he supported the Remain campaign as the Labour leader. he just (perhaps understandably) didn't do a good job of it. It happened again in the election with the policy on the Trident replacement. He toed the party line in spite of being personally against it.
I would have resigned if the party wouldn't support my position on fundamental issues of policy, but I never said he is a good leader. That's the other reason I won't vote Labour with him in charge - he's absolutely useless.
Sentiments I agree with, but you said he’d stuck to his principles. He didn’t, unless his principle has now changed to ‘Jeremy can tell big fibs if it means that he gets to stay as party leader’, in which case I’d agree with you.
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but you said he’d stuck to his principles. He didn’t, unless his principle has now changed to ‘Jeremy can tell big fibs if it means that he gets to stay as party leader’, in which case I’d agree with you.
What I meant was that his principles aren't secret. We all know he disagrees with official party policy on some matters. Contrast with Boris Johnson who I think was secretly a Remainer but who joined the Brexit side in order to curry favour with the Eurosceptics in his party for a future bid for the leadership.
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What I meant was that his principles aren't secret. We all know he disagrees with official party policy on some matters. Contrast with Boris Johnson who I think was secretly a Remainer but who joined the Brexit side in order to curry favour with the Eurosceptics in his party for a future bid for the leadership.
I think Johnson is a Borisist, nothing else.
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What I meant was that his principles aren't secret. We all know he disagrees with official party policy on some matters. Contrast with Boris Johnson who I think was secretly a Remainer but who joined the Brexit side in order to curry favour with the Eurosceptics in his party for a future bid for the leadership.
I have no issues with Corbyn being ambivalent on the referendum. It seems to me he genuinely was so the fabled 7 out of 10 mark he gave it was correct. Since then he doesn't really seem to be providing a clear view but that seems to be an issue the Labour Party has.
I get his idea that the party favour Trident so he has to agree with it in terms of his role, it just seems to me a step too far for a leader. I would rather not lead a party where we argue for Trident renewal if it is a principle that it is wrong.
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This says a lot of the things I think. The hypocrisy and lies from the mainstream are now so blatant that some people don't even see it.
https://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/why-im-giving-up-on-jeremy-corbyn.html
And yes he's a left wing blogger, but as said earlier in another context just because he's left wing, it doesn't mean he's wrong.
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Yes, tons: he's an honest politician he's not pro-Europe.
Just his last manifesto, on economics, was a pack of lies.
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Just his last manifesto, on economics, was a pack of lies.
Examples?
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There are many things I disagree with Corbyn on just as there are probably a few things I would wholeheartedly agree with him on, but dishonest I don't think he is.
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Examples?
Corp Tax will not raise anything like they claimed.
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Corp Tax will not raise anything like they claimed.
I wouldn't describe it as a pack of lies, merely hopelessly naive.
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I wouldn't describe it as a pack of lies, merely hopelessly naive.
I don't think anyone really knows how extra revenue an increase in Corp tax would bring. The IFS:-
Increasing rates will raise less revenue in the medium to long run because firms would respond by investing less in the UK. This in turn would depress economic activity and lead to fewer jobs and lower wages. There is a very high degree of uncertainty about how large these effects are but estimates suggest that they may be substantial. The potential size of these effects is an indication of why the OECD and others judge corporation tax to have a particularly damaging effect on economic growth.
https://core-politics.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/general-election-2017-libdems-white-flag.html
I find it quite scary a potential chancellor would spending money he doesn't know he will get.
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I don't think anyone really knows how extra revenue an increase in Corp tax would bring. The IFS:-
Increasing rates will raise less revenue in the medium to long run because firms would respond by investing less in the UK. This in turn would depress economic activity and lead to fewer jobs and lower wages. There is a very high degree of uncertainty about how large these effects are but estimates suggest that they may be substantial. The potential size of these effects is an indication of why the OECD and others judge corporation tax to have a particularly damaging effect on economic growth.
https://core-politics.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/general-election-2017-libdems-white-flag.html
I find it quite scary a potential chancellor would spending money he doesn't know he will get.
It seemed to me that a lot of Labour's calculations on tax rises are very naive. Raising taxes by x% doesn't increase the government's income by x% because raising taxes has a dampening effect on the economy and increases the incentive to find ways to avoid tax (like relocating elsewhere, as you say). Labour doesn't seem to have grasped that.
Furthermore, in some sense, Labour's proposed tax rises were pretty cynical because they were targeted at people that the British public perceive as bogeymen.
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It seemed to me that a lot of Labour's calculations on tax rises are very naive. Raising taxes by x% doesn't increase the government's income by x% because raising taxes has a dampening effect on the economy and increases the incentive to find ways to avoid tax (like relocating elsewhere, as you say). Labour doesn't seem to have grasped that.
Furthermore, in some sense, Labour's proposed tax rises were pretty cynical because they were targeted at people that the British public perceive as bogeymen.
Surely they can't be that naive they have economic advisers that would inform them. If they were straight they would have a policy for example of getting rid of student loans and putting it national debt the next generation can pay for it.
Clearly a more left wing can work it does in Scandinavia but pretending we can do it on current tax levels is downright dishonest. The only defence I've ever had from Corbyn supporters is 'yeah but the Tories' which is worrying to think our next Govt could be elected on such stupid thinking.
There again, Trump.
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Surely they can't be that naive they have economic advisers that would inform them. If they were straight they would have a policy for example of getting rid of student loans and putting it national debt the next generation can pay for it.
Clearly a more left wing can work it does in Scandinavia but pretending we can do it on current tax levels is downright dishonest. The only defence I've ever had from Corbyn supporters is 'yeah but the Tories' which is worrying to think our next Govt could be elected on such stupid thinking.
There again, Trump.
The conservatives when facing criticism say look at Corbyn. And Britain does as they are told.
But what happened to comparison of the two.
We must be honest.
The Conservatives want poverty in many cases in order to facilitate the Darwinian struggle implicit in Thatcherism. Conservatives have been successful in getting the British people to think that this existence is for them.
Anything that can offset that and preserve civilised values no matter how small has got to be preferable.
Also can you imagine what the conservatives would have been able to enact by being more than a fag paper ahead than Corbyn?
Example instead of Taxes paying for an NHS part of your money paid to American health insurers would go to that Condo in Miami for the CEO.
That said I have also said that Jeremy should perhaps not lead into a 2022 election.
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That said I have also said that Jeremy should perhaps not lead into a 2022 election.
What about an election before then, Vlad?
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What about an election before then, Vlad?
There wont be one. Any Brexit issue which will sink May is at least three years down the road will merely bring about a change of Tory face.
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The conservatives when facing criticism say look at Corbyn. And Britain does as they are told.
But what happened to comparison of the two.
We must be honest.
The Conservatives want poverty in many cases in order to facilitate the Darwinian struggle implicit in Thatcherism. Conservatives have been successful in getting the British people to think that this existence is for them.
Anything that can offset that and preserve civilised values no matter how small has got to be preferable.
Also can you imagine what the conservatives would have been able to enact by being more than a fag paper ahead than Corbyn?
Example instead of Taxes paying for an NHS part of your money paid to American health insurers would go to that Condo in Miami for the CEO.
That said I have also said that Jeremy should perhaps not lead into a 2022 election.
There you go, a left leaning forums best defence of Corbyn's economic policy is 'yeah but the tories' and a Vlad one at that riddled with the usual hit parade of strawmen and nonsense.
I once watched a vox pop at a Corbyn rally someone was asked 'do you agree with many of Jeremy's policies', 'I don't know nothing about that but I think he is a really nice man' came the reply.
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I'm certain that Jeremy means well.
ippy
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Yes, tons: he's an honest politician who believes in, and has worked for for decades, social justice, he opposes apartheid Israel, and he's an allotment holder. It's just a pity he's not pro-Europe.
Agreed.
But I wouldn't vote for him because I don't think some of his fiscal or educational policies add up - I would want to protect my children from the risks of a state school system where they could be bullied or isolated by their peers for being academic.
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I once watched a vox pop at a Corbyn rally someone was asked 'do you agree with many of Jeremy's policies', 'I don't know nothing about that but I think he is a really nice man' came the reply.
Yeah, don't get me wrong (I don't think Corbyn has the abilitiy or the ideas needed to run the country), but vox pops like that are bullshit. We have no idea how many people the TV crew had to interview before they got that little nugget.