And then there were none

[Nearly Sane]

Douglas Carswell quits UKIP



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39393213

[floo]

No decent person should belong to that very nasty party, imo.

[Anchorman]

A rat leaves a sinking ship - captained by rats.

[floo]

A rat leaves a sinking ship - captained by rats.

Exactly!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I don't think the people of Clacton voted ''Independent''. He should resign his seat.

[john]

What emergence said. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

To think Cameron fucked up the country for this very event.

[Harrowby Hall]

I don't think the people of Clacton voted ''Independent''. He should resign his seat.

The constitutional situation is the electorate votes for individuals not for political parties. Thus the people of Clacton voted for Douglas Carswell.  Before the election he had told them that he would be supporting UKIP. He is entitled to change the party he is prepared to support and this has been done many times - Winston Churchill did it twice. In 1977 Reg Prentice, a Labour minister joined the Conservative benches and became a minister serving under Margaret Thatcher.

Since Douglas Carswell was the only UKIP MP he was already effectively an independent.

[Nearly Sane]

The constitutional situation is the electorate votes for individuals not for political parties. Thus the people of Clacton voted for Douglas Carswell.  Before the election he had told them that he would be supporting UKIP. He is entitled to change the party he is prepared to support and this has been done many times - Winston Churchill did it twice. In 1977 Reg Prentice, a Labour minister joined the Conservative benches and became a minister serving under Margaret Thatcher.

Since Douglas Carswell was the only UKIP MP he was already effectively an independent.

though Carswell himself resigned when he switched to UKIP

[Harrowby Hall]

though Carswell himself resigned when he switched to UKIP

That is indeed true.

But what would be gained by resigning his seat just to change a worthless label to none at all? I suspect the seat would go Conservative, anyway ...

[Nearly Sane]

He's surely effectively going to vote with the govt so much to make himself look like a Tory. I think it is a breach of his own principles not to resign.

[Nearly Sane]

As an aside James McEvoy played a fictionalized version of Carswell's father.

[Harrowby Hall]

He's surely effectively going to vote with the govt so much to make himself look like a Tory. I think it is a breach of his own principles not to resign.

Why? If he resigns he will possibly lose the seat, then he won't even be able to look like a Tory ....   

Don't forget that in March 1981 about a dozen Labour MPs walked out of that party to form the Social Democratic Party, they were joined by a Tory MP. Later in the year a rather larger number of Labour MPs joined the new party. None of them sought re-election.

This idea that politicians are honourable (  ) is a brand new one ...

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Why? If he resigns he will possibly lose the seat, then he won't even be able to look like a Tory ....   

Don't forget that in March 1981 about a dozen Labour MPs walked out of that party to form the Social Democratic Party, they were joined by a Tory MP. Later in the year a rather larger number of Labour MPs joined the new party. None of them sought re-election.

This idea that politicians are honourable (  ) is a brand new one ...

Not quite true. Bruce Douglas-Mann did resign & fight a by election, unfortunately for him it took place during the Falklands War, and he lost to a ghastly Tory named Angela Rumbold, who held the seat until 1997.

[Harrowby Hall]

Indeed - but there has been no further resignation until Douglas Carswell - 32 years later.

[jeremyp]

The constitutional situation is the electorate votes for individuals not for political parties.

Yes they do constitutionally, but we all know that, in reality, people tend to vote for whoever is the representative of the party they support. Whether that would be the case in Clacton, we don't know.

Since Douglas Carswell was the only UKIP MP he was already effectively an independent.

But the people who voted for him at the last General Election didn't know that was going to be the case. I agree that, in practical terms, it will make little difference - judging by UKIP comments, he was always his own man.

[jeremyp]

Now we are in the situation where UKIP polled 3.8 million votes and has no representation in the House of Commons whereas the SNP polled only 1.5 million votes and has 56 MPs. If ever something screamed "electoral reform needed" this is it.

[Sebastian Toe]

Now we are in the situation where UKIP polled 3.8 million votes and has no representation in the House of Commons whereas the SNP polled only 1.5 million votes and has 56 MPs. If ever something screamed "electoral reform needed" this is it.

Wasn't there a referendum about that subject fairly recently?

[jeremyp]

Wasn't there a referendum about that subject fairly recently?

Yes, but that doesn't alter the fact that the current election system is farcical.

[Jack Knave]

A rat leaves a sinking ship.

It's not sinking but it does look too steady at the moment - it's lost some of its oarsmen.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's not sinking but it does look too steady at the moment - it's lost some of its oarsmen.

Unfortunately for UKIP Jack the Conservatives have decided that if there is going to be an English Nationalist party of the right it is going to be them.

[Harrowby Hall]

I think here that Vlad has hit the nail squarely on the head.

Mrs May's recent and continuing actions suggest that "Brexit means Brexit" really means "I have discovered a device which will ensure the continued dominance of the Conservative Party. If I can capture the support of the 3.8 million who voted for UKIP that will be the next General Election sewn up."

Theresa May, just like her immediate predecessor, is putting party interest before the national interest. Of course, she will justify this by saying that what is in the Conservative Party's interest is in the nation's interest.

[Gordon]

I think here that Vlad has hit the nail squarely on the head.

Mrs May's recent and continuing actions suggest that "Brexit means Brexit" really means "I have discovered a device which will ensure the continued dominance of the Conservative Party. If I can capture the support of the 3.8 million who voted for UKIP that will be the next General Election sewn up."

Theresa May, just like her immediate predecessor, is putting party interest before the national interest. Of course, she will justify this by saying that what is in the Conservative Party's interest is in the nation's interest.

Which is one reason, digressing slightly (and briefly), some of us in Scotland don't want to be part of Brexit given the above context.

[Sassy]

He made it clear it was about the Brexit.
He is now independent but I do believe that he should have done his term and if he leaves that party then a new vote should be carried out or the replacement for him in the party he left should take up his post.

I think that should be the rule regardless of the party they represent.

[Harrowby Hall]

He made it clear it was about the Brexit.
He is now independent but I do believe that he should have done his term and if he leaves that party then a new vote should be carried out or the replacement for him in the party he left should take up his post.

I think that should be the rule regardless of the party they represent.

Are you suggesting that Douglas Carswell should not have resigned from UKIP? It would have the appearance of "honourable" behaviour but one thing which is clear, in our uncodified constitution, is that individuals not parties are elected. There is no possibility of a substitute - that can only happen following an election. The only way a substitute could occupy Carswell's parliamentary seat is following a by-election which may well be won by a candidate supporting a different party.

When, for instance, Quentin Davies crossed the floor lo Labour in 2007, he continued to serve as the MP for Grantham until the general election of 2010, when he did not stand.

Constitutionally, we elect representatives to Parliament, not delegates.