UK General Election 2017

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, he's all those things. Unfortunately something in me finds that watchable. Current political television is like Jeremy Kyle for Guardian readers.

Hope your friend is ok.

The point though is surely that to expect a journalist to be loyal, and not to act professionally as a journalists is missing the point. Osborne is doing his job (well one of them), that he gets to to it with some glee doesn't stop it being his job. It is also a foolish attack as it gains nothing, intimidatesnit at all,and looks like a whinge. 

[Rhiannon]

The point though is surely that to expect a journalist to be loyal, and not to act professionally as a journalists is missing the point. Osborne is doing his job (well one of them), that he gets to to it with some glee doesn't stop it being his job. It is also a foolish attack as it gains nothing, intimidatesnit at all,and looks like a whinge.

Perhaps it isn't so much an attack to say he is those things, rather just stating an apparent fact. Like I said, I found it watchable.

[jakswan]

Did Labour make it clear in their manifesto that they are opposed to the single market and will not negotiate on it?

Yes and Labour MP confirmed that yesterday on Any Questions. LibDems & SNP vote share fell,, Brexit parties rose.

[jakswan]

They called it a ''Jobs first Brexit'' having prioritised that that notionally leaves them with a flexibility on how that is achieved. They also have the luxury of the tories having to finally show a good deal of their brexit hand.
The GBP have been paradoxically shielded from contemplating the full implications of Brexit because of the recent events and have effectively separated the brexit from the politics. Whoever is negotiating Brexit particularly the Conservatives who are on the brink of electoral annihilation need therefore to know what the word on the street is about Brexit and whether the majority of people actually want it any more. The ball is in the tory court. Once they go and Brexit is seen as the turd it is....Labour will then do whatever they think fit.

Go back on their manifesto?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Go back on their manifesto?

That depends if they get in this time round if T.May fails to form a government. In that eventuality an argument could be made that they had gone back on their manifesto. That would have been a big deal when the tories could get away with 5 manifesto reversals to everyone of labour but i'm not sure those days are here anymore.

Also I think we have to realise that compared to a transformation in public service Brexit is secondary as far as Labour and it's support.

Also there seems to be no specific commitment to the single market just the ''benefits'' of it and we have to compare this labour vagueness to Conservative vagueness which might sound Tu quoque but the electorate have already made that judgment IMHO.

If May manages to form a government then the Labour manifesto stands defeated anyway and a new election calls for a new manifesto.

[jakswan]

Go back on their manifesto?

Any Questions

Dimbleby "you have tied yourselves to leaving the single market" paraphrased.
Jon Asworth, Labour MP "no we can't move away from our manifesto"

Around 29 minutes, http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08spwl4.

[Nearly Sane]

A German mirror view

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/british-election-results-make-brexit-talks-more-difficult-a-1151400.html

[Keith Maitland]

Theresa May now has so little authority that Philip has just refused to put out the bins.

[floo]

There appears to be a lot of discontent in the Tory stable, I wonder how long it will be before TM falls on her sword? I think her demise as PM is almost inevitable, she appears to have lost all credibility.

[Nearly Sane]

And Fintan O'Toole's take




http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Partying like it was still 18th April 2017

Andrew Neil and Pienaar trying to get confessions of failure out of Labour politicians.
Graham Brady, who chairs the 1922 committee of backbench Conservative MPs, has said the UK now has two options. Another election for which HE doesn't ''detect an appetite for'' or ''responsible leadership'' from the Conservatives.

Source BBC.

[wigginhall]

And Fintan O'Toole's take




http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

Very nicely written.  I enjoyed the idea of the Daily Mail using the language of the French revolutionary terror, with May as Robespierre, and the 'volkish' rhetoric of May.  I can't remember the original, ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Maybot. Also seems to strip Brexit down to an kind of emptiness really.   Hard Brexit is absurd really, since it cuts off trade.

[wigginhall]

Partying like it was still 18th April 2017

Andrew Neil and Pienaar trying to get confessions of failure out of Labour politicians.
Graham Brady, who chairs the 1922 committee of backbench Conservative MPs, has said the UK now has two options. Another election for which HE doesn't ''detect an appetite for'' or ''responsible leadership'' from the Conservatives.

Source BBC.

I would think that another election is the last thing the Tories want, as Labour could easily win.   So they either soldier on with May, and keep things quiet, I suppose, or switch to A. N. Other, presumably not Boris.   Labour just wait really, hoping to win next time.   I am guessing that the polls will mount for Labour for a period. 

Still can't digest that in London, my local seat, which had a 10, 000 Tory majority, is now a marginal.   

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If we are honest the consequences of Brexit never mattered to the Conservatives since any outcome does not effect any of them seriously materially.

[wigginhall]

If we are honest the consequences of Brexit never mattered to the Conservatives since any outcome does not effect any of them seriously materially.

I suppose right-wing Tories like it as it has overtones of nationalism, Britannia, keeps the wogs out, and so on.   Economically, it's more difficult to justify, as at a stroke you cut off or shrink trade with your nearest neighbours.   So you have to go on about trade with everybody else - which may be possible of course.   But you can't help thinking that May's chaos is partly Brexit-caused, as she has not spelled out what it means.   Well, nobody has, except in vague terms.  Blank cheques rule.

[Nearly Sane]

Ah unity!!!


https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/86605/theresa-may-be-hauled-emergency

[floo]

I think it was Harold Wilson who said, "A week is along time in politics", at present it would appear it is an hour!

[wigginhall]

Some Labour voters apparently dismayed at McDonnell rejecting single market.   Obvious solution - EEA.

A friend said to me, Labour has to keep its UKIP wing happy.  God, what a huge mess.   

[jakswan]

I suppose right-wing Tories like it as it has overtones of nationalism, Britannia, keeps the wogs out, and so on.   Economically, it's more difficult to justify, as at a stroke you cut off or shrink trade with your nearest neighbours.   So you have to go on about trade with everybody else - which may be possible of course.   But you can't help thinking that May's chaos is partly Brexit-caused, as she has not spelled out what it means.   Well, nobody has, except in vague terms.  Blank cheques rule.

This just what we need, make out some as racist, fuels hatred and division.

[jakswan]

Ah unity!!!

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/86605/theresa-may-be-hauled-emergency

Interesting to see how united Labour stay as McDonnell rules out single market, we know JC isn't keen on EU whilst most of his party very much are.

http://core-politics.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/general-election-2017-libdems-white-flag.html

[Nearly Sane]

This just what we need, make out some as racist, fuels hatred and division.

But some are racist. You have a point if you complain about all being made out as racist but denying that any are is just as ludicrous.

[wigginhall]

This just what we need, make out some as racist, fuels hatred and division.

You should come and talk to some of my neighbours (Norfolk), they sound like Julius Streicher.  Do you think I should avoid mentioning this?

[jakswan]

You should come and talk to some of my neighbours (Norfolk), they sound like Julius Streicher.  Do you think I should avoid mentioning this?

I thought you were referring to MP's since it was in context of view over Brexit? Anyway someone can be a right-wing tory without being racist as someone can be hard left without being anti-Semitic.

It was a lazy generalisation in my view.

[Nearly Sane]

I thought you were referring to MP's since it was in context of view over Brexit? Anyway someone can be a right-wing tory without being racist as someone can be hard left without being anti-Semitic.

It was a lazy generalisation in my view.

And since wigginhall didn't say that either, it was simply a misreading on your part

[wigginhall]

It's gonna be strange in the Commons, as there will be uproar, and when Corbyn comes in, Labour exultation.  However, of course, Corbyn is not very good in parliament, so this will fade.   Still, when you have a zombie government, you probably don't have to do much.