Author Topic: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?  (Read 2114 times)

trippymonkey

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Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« on: July 28, 2017, 03:28:29 PM »

floo

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2017, 03:31:08 PM »
Whoops, god didn't do a very good job of getting rid of the Canaanites if that is the case.

trippymonkey

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 03:34:19 PM »
INDEED !?!?!?
Very sloppy work to be sure, eh ???

DaveM

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 03:50:51 PM »
INDEED !?!?!?
Very sloppy work to be sure, eh ???
Perhaps not so sloppy after all.  Quote from Judges 3:1-6

Now these are the nations that the Lord left, to test Israel by them, that is, all in Israel who had not experienced all the wars in Canaan. It was only in order that the generations of the people of Israel might know war, to teach war to those who had not known it before. These are the nations: the five lords of the Philistines and all the Canaanites and the Sidonians and the Hivites who lived on Mount Lebanon, from Mount Baal-hermon as far as Lebo-hamath. They were for the testing of Israel, to know whether Israel would obey the commandments of the Lord, which he commanded their fathers by the hand of Moses. So the people of Israel lived among the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. And their daughters they took to themselves for wives, and their own daughters they gave to their sons, and they served their gods.       

trippymonkey

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2017, 03:58:11 PM »
OH DEAR.
I can so easily see you're one of those apologists for the Bible ?!!?!?

KNOW WAR - TEACH WAR ?!!?!?
WTF ?????
This ridiculous book is dragging ITSELF down the sewers !!!!

Udayana

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2017, 04:03:41 PM »
WELLL It seems like more BS surrounding this 'infallible' religion & book..... Whatcha all feel ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/bible-canaanites-wiped-out-old-testament-israelites-lebanon-descendants-discovered-science-dna-a7862936.html

hmm .. I find the effort to relate the study to bible mythology rather bizarre  as the only mention of Israel in the paper is:

Quote
This suggests that people from the highly differ-
entiated urban culture on the Levant coast and inland peo-
ple with different modes of subsistence were nevertheless
genetically similar, supporting previous reports that the
different cultural groups who inhabited the Levant during
the Bronze Age, such as the Ammonites, Moabites, Israel-
ites, and Phoenicians, each achieved their own cultural
identities but all shared a common genetic and ethnic
root with Canaanites.

So, genetically, we are unable to tell "Israelites" from "Canaanites" anyway.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Anchorman

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2017, 04:08:13 PM »
Since most scholars - even Biblical scholars - would accept that the Pentateuch has been edited - severely - since the sixth century, its' value as history is negated (not so its' value as theology) Most archaeologists have realised the situation in bronze age Palestine from c 1380-1200 for many decades - the warring superpowers of Egypt/Mitanni/Naharin and Hatti vied for suzreignty over the statelets for centuries. The Canaanites formed a confederacy with other tribes - including Mycenaen Greeks and Phonecians - to menace the Mediterranian coast in the twelfth century. The Egyptian name for them was "Palestinu" -Sea peoples. Recognise the derivation of the name, anyone?
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DaveM

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2017, 04:16:08 PM »
OH DEAR.
I can so easily see you're one of those apologists for the Bible ?!!?!?

KNOW WAR - TEACH WAR ?!!?!?
WTF ?????
This ridiculous book is dragging ITSELF down the sewers !!!!
I rest my case and claim first prize.  :)

SusanDoris

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 04:31:10 PM »
Nice link. Gradually, science evidence replaces myth.  A pity it doesn't work faster.
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DaveM

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2017, 04:35:50 PM »
Since most scholars - even Biblical scholars - would accept that the Pentateuch has been edited - severely - since the sixth century, its' value as history is negated (not so its' value as theology) Most archaeologists have realised the situation in bronze age Palestine from c 1380-1200 for many decades - the warring superpowers of Egypt/Mitanni/Naharin and Hatti vied for suzreignty over the statelets for centuries. The Canaanites formed a confederacy with other tribes - including Mycenaen Greeks and Phonecians - to menace the Mediterranian coast in the twelfth century. The Egyptian name for them was "Palestinu" -Sea peoples. Recognise the derivation of the name, anyone?
Just out of interest.  Would the above also apply to the Book of Judges?  Do most scholars also take the view that it has been heavily edited?  If so what are the reasons for their views?  Thanks

floo

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2017, 05:16:22 PM »
Perhaps not so sloppy after all.  Quote from Judges 3:1-6

Now these are the nations that the Lord left, to test Israel by them, that is, all in Israel who had not experienced all the wars in Canaan. It was only in order that the generations of the people of Israel might know war, to teach war to those who had not known it before. These are the nations: the five lords of the Philistines and all the Canaanites and the Sidonians and the Hivites who lived on Mount Lebanon, from Mount Baal-hermon as far as Lebo-hamath. They were for the testing of Israel, to know whether Israel would obey the commandments of the Lord, which he commanded their fathers by the hand of Moses. So the people of Israel lived among the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. And their daughters they took to themselves for wives, and their own daughters they gave to their sons, and they served their gods.     

Your god is a psycho if any of that had credibility.

Anchorman

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2017, 07:18:18 PM »
Just out of interest.  Would the above also apply to the Book of Judges?  Do most scholars also take the view that it has been heavily edited?  If so what are the reasons for their views?  Thanks

TBH, I haven't checked.
However, assuming a putative migration -exodus in Egypt sometime between c1380 and 1200 - which allows time for a kingdom to be set up - which is confirmed both in Kings and in extra-Biblical sources, then, if the Pentateuch were accurate history, the failure to mention Mitanni, Naharin, the Phoenician-Mycaenina-Canaan 'alliance', the coastal hiatus throughout the area, are glaring, ov
bvious ommissions.

By the time of the Judges and the later divided kingdom, Naharin and Mitanni had ceased to function, Hatti was hopelessly divided and Egypt was weakened, divided and on a long spiral downhill.
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Anchorman

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The poster formerly known as....

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2017, 05:40:07 PM »
Nice link. Gradually, science evidence replaces myth.  A pity it doesn't work faster.
It's a pity it seems to let new atheist hyperbole unscathed.
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Alien

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2017, 07:02:05 PM »
So basically the bible doesn't teach that the Canaanites were wiped out by the Israelites then. Pity the various newspapers who misreported the bible didn't check up. Not surprised though.

Hiya everyone.
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jeremyp

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2017, 07:19:54 PM »
hmm .. I find the effort to relate the study to bible mythology rather bizarre  as the only mention of Israel in the paper is:

So, genetically, we are unable to tell "Israelites" from "Canaanites" anyway.
Indeed, the true significance is that it corroborates the archaeology in that there never was an Israelite invasion of Canaan and that the Jews were just another tribe that lived in the area.
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Alien

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2017, 10:55:56 AM »
Indeed, the true significance is that it corroborates the archaeology in that there never was an Israelite invasion of Canaan and that the Jews were just another tribe that lived in the area.
Really? I've seen that claim. Would you kindly link to the website which convinced you this conclusion is true (if it was a website). Ta.
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floo

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2017, 11:12:17 AM »
The Jewish authors of the OT wanted it to appear their tribe was chosen by their god to be more important than any other!

Nearly Sane

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2017, 11:27:05 AM »
Really? I've seen that claim. Would you kindly link to the website which convinced you this conclusion is true (if it was a website). Ta.
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Anchorman

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2017, 01:39:40 PM »
The Jewish authors of the OT wanted it to appear their tribe was chosen by their god to be more important than any other!


Given the times and places of the authors of the various texts which made up the OT, that is a sweeping generalisation.
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Alien

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2017, 04:53:57 PM »
Apparently 99.9975% atheist because I believe in one out of 4000 believed in (an atheist on Facebook). Yes, check the maths as well.

jeremyp

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2017, 11:36:39 PM »
Really? I've seen that claim. Would you kindly link to the website which convinced you this conclusion is true (if it was a website). Ta.
I suggest you try The Bible Unearthed by Israel Finkelstein.
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Spud

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2017, 04:11:21 AM »
The Amarna tablets are interesting. They speak of an invasion of Canaan by 'the Habiru' whom some think were the Hebrews.

Anchorman

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2017, 09:23:35 AM »
The Amarna tablets are interesting. They speak of an invasion of Canaan by 'the Habiru' whom some think were the Hebrews.
And that 'some' would be wrong, having little knowledge of the lingyuistic variations in the cuneform of the Assyrian, Mittanian, Hittites and Egyptian. Those would be the same 'some' who equate Akhenaten with some monotheist proto-messiah - or even with Joseph or Moses. Three superb books on the period, written in the past decade, give a very good overview of the situation, and the last two analyse the Amarna letters. "Akhenaten: Egypt's false prophet" by Nicholas Reeves, and "Amarna Sunrise" and its' sequal "Amarna Sunset" both by Aidan Dodson.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 09:27:18 AM by Anchorman »
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Canaanites NOT destroyed 'utterly' ?!?!!?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2017, 09:42:46 AM »
Would somebody explain to me why this is being discussed in the Christian Section of this forum? This has NOTHING to do with Christianity.

Why don't the mods move it to the Jewish section where it belongs?
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