Why hate feminism?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Because they are paid less because they are women.

Are they paid less because they are women, or because they hold lower paid jobs? At mywork the female cleaners are paid more than are the male cleaners, because the former tend to be the supervisors.

[Nearly Sane]

Are they paid less because they are women, or because they hold lower paid jobs? At mywork the female cleaners are paid more than are the male cleaners, because the former tend to be the supervisors.

Because they are women. As the story makes clear.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

HWB, what do you think is women's role in society, and how should they conduct themselves?

LR I dislike feminism because it divides the least well off in society on the grounds of gender. If you want me to start quoting from the Bible you are going to be disappointed.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Because they are women. As the story makes clear.

Well no it did not. Surely to pay somebody less purely on the basis of gender is illegal? If so then legal action, rather than strike action, should be taken.

[Nearly Sane]

Well no it did not. Surely to pay somebody less purely on the basis of gender is illegal? If so then legal action, rather than strike action, should be taken.

That was done too. The Labour council spent money trying to justify their paying women less.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/glasgow-city-council-drops-legal-11868501

[Humph Warden Bennett]

That was done too. The Labour council spent money trying to justify their paying women less.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/glasgow-city-council-drops-legal-11868501

Thanks for the second link. But this strikes me as being a trade union issue, not a feminist issue as such, and trying to make it a women's issue IMHO breaks the solidarity. FTR I worked for a Scottish company based in Glasgow, and I had to take them to court so as to enforce my contractual annual leave rights.  (The Sheriff, and the court staff, were very helpful without being biased).

[Shaker]

You want to split the working class political movement based upon gender, and you think that is reasonable?

The class angle as far as I can see is a delusion of your own concoction.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

The class angle as far as I can see is a delusion of your own concoction.

Er...no. Ever heard of the Socialist Workers Party?

[Nearly Sane]

Thanks for the second link. But this strikes me as being a trade union issue, not a feminist issue as such, and trying to make it a women's issue IMHO breaks the solidarity. FTR I worked for a Scottish company based in Glasgow, and I had to take them to court so as to enforce my contractual annual leave rights.  (The Sheriff, and the court staff, were very helpful without being biased).

They were paid less because they were women.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Then it is a classic trades union issue. It has nothing to do with wealthy women leapfrogging wealthy men into boardrooms, or deliberately appointing only females as dental hygienists/ admin assistants/ secretaries/receptionists. How many men are ever given those jobs?

And please do not claim that all men are on FTSE top 100 boards, cos most of us ain't.

[Nearly Sane]

Then it is a classic trades union issue. It has nothing to do with wealthy women leapfrogging wealthy men into boardrooms, or deliberately appointing only females as dental hygienists/ admin assistants/ secretaries/receptionists. How many men are ever given those jobs?

And please do not claim that all men are on FTSE top 100 boards, cos most of us ain't.

What are you on about?

[Roses]

HBW seems to be very confused!

[Robbie]

A movement which splits the working class (proletariat) on gender basis (i.e do you belong to the offspring bearing gender, or to the non offspring bearing gender?)

I would have thought that distinction was obvious, but then not all of us went to Orpington College in 1976.

I thought they taught A levels at Orpers in those* days, to mixed classes?
(Marxist roots of feminism was taught in A level Sociology, maybe still is. There's plenty about feminism and Marxism on the internet.

The class angle as far as I can see is a delusion of your own concoction.

I've been trying to get my head around that too. One obvious uniting factor for women of every 'class' is that all have faced discrimination on the grounds of their sex but so what? Strikes me you may be a bit hung up about class, sorry if I have misjudged you.

HWB:- "...deliberately appointing only females as dental hygienists/ admin assistants/ secretaries/receptionists"

News to me (as an ex HR manager) there was any deliberation about it. Not many men applied for those jobs except admin assistant. Secretaries are now executive assistants or some other title and whilst there may be more women than men, there are men who do such jobs, appointed because of suitability and not sex. There are male receptionists and male veterinary nurses just as there are women who drive delivery vans and buses. 

*or 'them' if you prefer.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

What are you on about?

It is something for the trades union to deal with. What do you think that trades unions do?

[Roses]

I can't think of any job, which employs people of one gender.

[Nearly Sane]

It is something for the trades union to deal with. What do you think that trades unions do?

And the thing that are dealing with is women being paid less for being women.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I've been trying to get my head around that too. One obvious uniting factor for women of every 'class' is that all have faced discrimination on the grounds of their sex

Easy way out. "They discriminated against me because I am female/black/disabled". Who discriminated against Elena Ceaucescu?

News to me (as an ex HR manager) there was any deliberation about it. Not many men applied for those jobs except admin assistant. Secretaries are now executive assistants or some other title and whilst there may be more women than men, there are men who do such jobs, appointed because of suitability and not sex. There are male receptionists and male veterinary nurses just as there are women who drive delivery vans and buses. 

*or 'them' if you prefer.

Then take a walk to Falconwood Employment Agency in London Road, Bromley. Ask them how many males are given temporary white collar jobs.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I can't think of any job, which employs people of one gender.

There are some jobs, in nursing, social work, which are exempt from the 1975 statute. I am not grumbling about them.

[Roses]

There are some jobs, in nursing, social work, which are exempt from the 1975 statute. I am not grumbling about them.

Such as?

[Robbie]

H:- Easy way out. "They discriminated against me because I am female/black/disabled".

That has frequently happened and still happens. We who haven't experienced such discrimination are fortunate but doesn't mean we aren't aware of discrimination.

H:- Who discriminated against Elena Ceaucescu?

No idea but in the end she was indiscriminately shot.

H:- Then take a walk to Falconwood Employment Agency in London Road, Bromley. Ask them how many males are given temporary white collar jobs.

Are you trying to say they favour women over men regardless of qualifications and experience? Or is it just that more women than men are interested in those jobs.
You could ask them if it is so important to you, come back and tell us what they say. Or do some undercover work and go digging.
Ifyou find evidence that Falconwood discriminate against male candidates, write it up and send to the Bromley Times. Name and shame.

[Robbie]

HWB:- There are some jobs, in nursing, social work, which are exempt from the 1975 statute. I am not grumbling about them.

Such as?

Bumping this so that Roses is answered.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Bumping this so that Roses is answered.

Are you and LR seriously claiming that you do not know that some jobs are exempt from the Sex Discrimination Act 1975?

LR does not know Karl Marx from Groucho Marx, but you claim to have worked in HR, and you do not know that some forms of nursing, and some social work within certain communities, are exempt from that statute? Do you think that women from the Horn of Africa, escaping an abusive marriage, and not wishing their daughters to suffer the butchery of FGM, are forced to talk to men?

[Robbie]

Humph, please don't jump to conclusions, I wanted you to answer Little Roses or, more specifically, as I had posted at some length immediately after her, I didn't want her post to be overlooked.

[Roses]

Are you and LR seriously claiming that you do not know that some jobs are exempt from the Sex Discrimination Act 1975?

LR does not know Karl Marx from Groucho Marx, but you claim to have worked in HR, and you do not know that some forms of nursing, and some social work within certain communities, are exempt from that statute? Do you think that women from the Horn of Africa, escaping an abusive marriage, and not wishing their daughters to suffer the butchery of FGM, are forced to talk to men?

You are really behaving in a very silly way, by making daft comments. What the heck Marxism has to do with this topic goodness only knows. Men and women can request having someone of the same gender to attend to their care, or with whom to discuss personal problems. That is not the as saying people of either gender are barred from those areas.

[Robbie]

The Act was repealed a few years ago, Humph may remember when, I don't but the Equality Act embraces Sex Discrimination, Race Relations and other things.
(Some of the exemptions are religion based which won't please everyone, I ain't gonna open that can of worms.)

Still don't really get H's anti-feminist stance particularly the class issue but I haven't anything else to add to this discussion. Over to others.