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Author Topic: US Election 2020  (Read 43382 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #525 on: January 07, 2021, 04:23:53 PM »
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Roses

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #526 on: January 07, 2021, 05:03:38 PM »
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Spud

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #527 on: January 07, 2021, 06:49:01 PM »
Quote from: ProfessorDavey on January 07, 2021, 03:13:31 PM
When you are president unless you condemn violence in no uncertain terms you, in effect, endorse it.

Listen to his speech to the rally earlier - the language was all about marching up to the capital and fighting. If that isn't endorsing, indeed encouraging, what actually happened then I don't know what is.

I've looked at clips of previous speeches in which he has encouraged punchups, eg if someone throws egg at him he would like to punch them. Also watched the first 17 minutes of yesterday's speech in which he said the following: "after this we're going to walk down to the capitol and cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women.... not so much for some of them... I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the capitol building, to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard, today we will see whether republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections" (Time=15:30-16:30 minutes, here)
Feel free to watch the rest of it to see if he changes that instruction. I'm not condoning his tone or refusal to accept the election results, just saying he did not incite yesterday's rioting.
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Spud

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #528 on: January 07, 2021, 06:53:57 PM »
Quote from: ProfessorDavey on January 07, 2021, 03:33:48 PM
Rubbish - Trump was there, Trump addressed them, Trump told them to go to the Capitol and fight ... and guess what, that is exactly what they did.
I heard the word "fight" once at a different part of a recent speech - can't recall where - and I think he used it with reference to the Republican politicians being strong instead of weak.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #529 on: January 07, 2021, 07:12:56 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 06:53:57 PM
I heard the word "fight" once at a different part of a recent speech - can't recall where - and I think he used it with reference to the Republican politicians being strong instead of weak.

Well even Trump isn't going to directly say storm the capitol. But that is what he meant. That is what he has been building up to with his rabble rousing speeches. This is what he intended to happen. That you cannot see that is both interesting, disturbing and revealing.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #530 on: January 07, 2021, 07:21:17 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 06:49:01 PM
I've looked at clips of previous speeches in which he has encouraged punchups, eg if someone throws egg at him he would like to punch them. Also watched the first 17 minutes of yesterday's speech in which he said the following: "after this we're going to walk down to the capitol and cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women.... not so much for some of them... I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the capitol building, to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard, today we will see whether republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections" (Time=15:30-16:30 minutes, here)
Feel free to watch the rest of it to see if he changes that instruction. I'm not condoning his tone or refusal to accept the election results, just saying he did not incite yesterday's rioting.
He didn't condemn their actions. He gave his approval to them. He said they were loved.
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Owlswing

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #531 on: January 08, 2021, 12:03:47 AM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 06:53:57 PM

I heard the word "fight" once at a different part of a recent speech - can't recall where - and I think he used it with reference to the Republican politicians being strong instead of weak.


By your defending him, makes you as bad as him!

Anyone who has listened to him since election day has known what was coming if he lost and that is the only thing he has talked about since.

Even he is not that stupid that he doesn't know he lost! Equally, he knows his audience and he knew from the second he started to talk about walking down to the Capitol what was going to happen when the mob got there!

"I'm going to be walking with you all the way!"

Did he walk with them?

Did he bollocks!

He knew full well that the last place he wanted to be was at the Capitol when the mob got there so he could deny any responsibility for what was going to happen!

Owlswing

)O(
 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 12:11:14 AM by Owlswing »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #532 on: January 08, 2021, 03:36:27 AM »
When does Melania resign?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #533 on: January 08, 2021, 03:54:00 AM »
Thread from the 21st December predicting what happened on the 6th January.


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1341016471795843080.html
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 08:14:44 AM by Nearly Sane »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #534 on: January 08, 2021, 08:40:45 AM »
Quote from: Owlswing on January 08, 2021, 12:03:47 AM
By your defending him, makes you as bad as him!.....


Owlswing

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No. I think you can argue there is complicity but not everyone is as bad as Trump if they support him or have supported him.
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Owlswing

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #535 on: January 08, 2021, 08:57:47 AM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on January 08, 2021, 08:40:45 AM

 No. I think you can argue there is complicity but not everyone is as bad as Trump if they support him or have supported him.


You see it your way, I see it mine!

If you are not condemning him you are supporting him - not only in my eyes but in his!

Owlswing

)O(
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The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #536 on: January 08, 2021, 09:05:20 AM »
Quote from: Owlswing on January 08, 2021, 08:57:47 AM
You see it your way, I see it mine!

If you are not condemning him you are supporting him - not only in my eyes but in his!

Owlswing

)O(
That isn't the same thing though. You can be complicit on actions and not be as bad as other people carrying out actions. Spud's very naive take on Trump does not make him as bad as Trump.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #537 on: January 08, 2021, 09:10:20 AM »
Police officer dead after the insurrection.


I have seen it claimed that one of the deaths of the insuurectionists happened because they managed to taser themselves while trying to steal a painting - not confirmed


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55583264
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Owlswing

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #538 on: January 08, 2021, 09:14:13 AM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on January 08, 2021, 09:05:20 AM

 That isn't the same thing though. You can be complicit on actions and not be as bad as other people carrying out actions. Spud's very naive take on Trump does not make him as bad as Trump.


This, "very naive", is a very good description of those supporting Trump and accepting his lies.

Especially if you add the word "dangerously"!

Owlswing

)O(

P S - I am ending this particular - re Spud - line, not wishing to earn myself another ban by getting too heated - a very bad habit of mine.

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The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

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Steve H

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #539 on: January 08, 2021, 09:15:10 AM »
Quote from: Owlswing on January 07, 2021, 09:02:06 AM
What are the chances of Trump and his supporters starting a second civil war?

YES, this is a serious question!

Owlswing

)O(
Non-existent. Huge, nationwide, sporadic riots, maybe, but that's not the same thing.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #540 on: January 08, 2021, 09:18:56 AM »
Quote from: Owlswing on January 08, 2021, 09:14:13 AM
This, "very naive", is a very good description of those supporting Trump and accepting his lies.

Especially if you add the word "dangerously"!

Owlswing

)O(

P S - I am ending this particular - re Spud - line, not wishing to earn myself another ban by getting too heated - a very bad habit of mine.
Thing is, some of those supporting Trump are just dangerous, and not naive at all,  e.g Ted Cruz.  We need to be able to judge with more nuance, a word that I sometimes think has been removed from the language, else we end up with everyone being called fascist or similar.

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Robbie

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #541 on: January 08, 2021, 10:58:06 AM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on January 08, 2021, 03:36:27 AM
When does Melania resign?

She ahs every appearance of someone who is resigned.....
Zombie springs to mind.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #542 on: January 08, 2021, 11:02:25 AM »
Quote from: Robbie on January 08, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
She ahs every appearance of someone who is resigned.....
Zombie springs to mind.
i also wonder if we will see a Trump Family Pardon
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Roses

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #543 on: January 08, 2021, 11:22:29 AM »
Trump has now condemned the rioters! I doubt his position has actually changed, more likely he is concerned that the 25th amendment could be implemented and he is booted out before Jan 20th.
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Gordon

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #544 on: January 08, 2021, 11:34:03 AM »
I suspect that Pence, and senior Republicans, will try and avoid the 25th Amendment like the plague, or support impeachment, for fear of offending those who have been misled by Trump but still cling to his lies - especially if Pence hopes to be in the race for the 2024 nomination.

Ideally, if Trump had a mere smatter of honour, he would resign and let Pence see out the time until the 20th: no chance of that though, so there remains the risk that Trump would do something childishly provocative while he still can.
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Anchorman

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #545 on: January 08, 2021, 11:37:45 AM »
Quote from: Littleroses on January 08, 2021, 11:22:29 AM
Trump has now condemned the rioters! I doubt his position has actually changed, more likely he is concerned that the 25th amendment could be implemented and he is booted out before Jan 20th.
   


In anyone else, this would be considered hypocrisy of the highest order...
In this case, it's simply Trump being Trump.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #546 on: January 08, 2021, 11:44:29 AM »
Quote from: Anchorman on January 08, 2021, 11:37:45 AM
   


In anyone else, this would be considered hypocrisy of the highest order...
In this case, it's simply Trump being Trump.
To me, this didn't feel that much like Trump being Trump. It felt a bit like he was being held hostage which I think in one sense he is. There was huge reaction against him on the darker bits of the alt right social media where he is being denounced in similar terms to Pence the day before.
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Roses

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #547 on: January 08, 2021, 12:11:35 PM »
Can a US president run again for office if they are impeached?
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Steve H

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #548 on: January 08, 2021, 12:21:34 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on January 08, 2021, 12:11:35 PM
Can a US president run again for office if they are impeached?
Apparently not, if they're found guilty of whatever they were impeached for ("impeached" means "charged", not "convicted".) That's why some people want to impeach him again, even though his presidency has only 12 days left to run.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #549 on: January 08, 2021, 12:24:53 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on January 08, 2021, 12:11:35 PM
Can a US president run again for office if they are impeached?
If they are just impeached, as Trump was already, then yes. The question is more about of they are then convicted in the Senate by a 2/3 majority then they would be removed from office, and then the Senate can vote by simple majority for further punishments which could include being unable to run for office again.

If a President is removed via the 25th Amendment, then they can run again.
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