The myth of the temporarily Embarrased Millionaire.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The myth of the temporarily embarrassed millionaire has been cited as a reason for the failure of the Labour Party.

Temporarily embarrassed millionaires could be reminded that

They are the “herd” in herd immunity.
They didn’t go to Eton........or similar establishment.
That when the going got tough they needed state handouts
They are not temporarily embarrassed billionaires.
That they are the little people who the rules are for.

[Nearly Sane]

Surely it's about the US and not here?


https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/05/americans-class-politics-piston

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Surely it's about the US and not here?


https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/05/americans-class-politics-piston

It’s rise over here seems to be one of the only rational explanation for the love of conservatism, the fear of labour, and how people seem to be prepared to be treated in appalling ways. There has to be a huge payoff in the imaginations of people. Temporarily embarrassed millionaire status fits the bill.

[Nearly Sane]

It’s rise over here seems to be one of the only rational explanation for the love of conservatism, the fear of labour, and how people seem to be prepared to be treated in appalling ways. There has to be a huge payoff in the imaginations of people. Temporarily embarrassed millionaire status fits the bill.

What 'rise' here? Conservatism with a small c is not really a characteristic of 'TEMs'.  Indeed it's an idea of social mobility which is contradicted with UK conservatism.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What 'rise' here? Conservatism with a small c is not really a characteristic of 'TEMs'.  Indeed it's an idea of social mobility which is contradicted with UK conservatism.

Sorry , that small C should be a big C. And because Conservatism is such a metamorphosing thing it is being reshaped into American models with ease since Thatcher vis friedmanism, Thatchernomics, property ownership, entrepreneurship worship.

There is, as I see it no other explanation other than the either the irrational belief in the promise of a huge payback.........John Majors “yes it hurt, yes it worked “ and/ or an irrational belief that no matter how little you have Labour will want to take it off you.

[Nearly Sane]

Sorry , that small C should be a big C. And because Conservatism is such a metamorphosing thing it is being reshaped into American models with ease since Thatcher vis friedmanism, Thatchernomics, property ownership, entrepreneurship worship.

There is, as I see it no other explanation other than the either the irrational belief in the promise of a huge payback.........John Majors “yes it hurt, yes it worked “ and/ or an irrational belief that no matter how little you have Labour will want to take it off you.

If you were making this case in the mid to late 80s then you would be on firmer ground. There was an undoubted move to the idea of entrepreneurship in Thatcher's approach. The move towards both share ownership and house ownership being part of that.

In that light, I would see Major's tenure as a pause followed by the Blair years where Labour were 'incredibly relaxed about being filthy rich'.

My take is that the last ten years have been pretty much the antithesis of TEMs - austerity isn't the best time for it. Instead of the iconoclasm of Thatcher, we have a return to the knowing your place so that we are ruled by Etonians, and we fear immigrants taking our low paid jobs rather than think we are likely to be millionaires.

Brexit seems to hark back to times when social mobility was non existent and we had lots of manual jobs. I think the red wall collapsed not because people think like TEMs but like serfs.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If you were making this case in the mid to late 80s then you would be on firmer ground. There was an undoubted move to the idea of entrepreneurship in Thatcher's approach. The move towards both share ownership and house ownership being part of that.

In that light, I would see Major's tenure as a pause followed by the Blair years where Labour were 'incredibly relaxed about being filthy rich'.

My take is that the last ten years have been pretty much the antithesis of TEMs - austerity isn't the best time for it. Instead of the iconoclasm of Thatcher, we have a return to the knowing your place so that we are ruled by Etonians, and we fear immigrants taking our low paid jobs rather than think we are likely to be millionaires.

Brexit seems to hark back to times when social mobility was non existent and we had lots of manual jobs. I think the red wall collapsed not because people think like TEMs but like serfs.

I’m not sure irrational optimism like TEM or arriviste fades from society.
I too was attracted by serfdom theory although I would argue that it doesn’t fit the bill as well as TEM

1. Lovers of Conservatism, haters of Labour are very much Thatcherite arriviste and still believe.

Serfdom or doing without will do ‘em good is not an uncommon attitude of TEM baby boomers who imagine they had it hard.

2. Where did people get the serf habit from ?These things aren’t biologically inherited and there is no cultural continuity of Serfdom.

[jeremyp]

It’s rise over here seems to be one of the only rational explanation for the love of conservatism, the fear of labour,

It's a paradox that the Left in British politics seemed no to have understood. Just because you're poor or working class doesn't mean you will automatically support the views of the modern liberal left. There's no fundamental reason why a factory worker should be more tolerant of immigrants or gay people or even women than any Tory.

[Nearly Sane]

I’m not sure irrational optimism like TEM or arriviste fades from society.
I too was attracted by serfdom theory although I would argue that it doesn’t fit the bill as well as TEM

1. Lovers of Conservatism, haters of Labour are very much Thatcherite arriviste and still believe.

Serfdom or doing without will do ‘em good is not an uncommon attitude of TEM baby boomers who imagine they had it hard.

2. Where did people get the serf habit from ?These things aren’t biologically inherited and there is no cultural continuity of Serfdom.

Brexit is antiTEM

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's a paradox that the Left in British politics seemed no to have understood. Just because you're poor or working class doesn't mean you will automatically support the views of the modern liberal left. There's no fundamental reason why a factory worker should be more tolerant of immigrants or gay people or even women than any Tory.

But the mystery is why the tolerance of having, where applicable, shit conditions, shit health, shit wages, shit prospects, employers ever profiting and all this run by public schoolboys, commentated on by public schoolboys and girls etc.........what’s the payoff?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Brexit is antiTEM

How so?

[Nearly Sane]

How so?

As already covered it's about fear if losing low paying jobs in a sclerotic society where you know your place isn't going to get better. The red wall was in constituencies that had voted against Thatcher, that had felt the brunt of the loss of hope under Thatcher.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

As already covered it's about fear if losing low paying jobs in a sclerotic society where you know your place isn't going to get better. The red wall was in constituencies that had voted against Thatcher, that had felt the brunt of the loss of hope under Thatcher.

It seems to me that Brexit was to make the UK more like the US and the appeal was more untold riches. The attraction of Toryism to red wall is if you can’t beat em join em and prosper surely.

The logic of Brexit is wages going sky high once we stop immigration. Or controlling borders by letting anybody, from any where as long as they can afford an airfare and whatever their temperature aka no control at all as it is now practically known.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

As already covered it's about fear if losing low paying jobs in a sclerotic society where you know your place isn't going to get better. The red wall was in constituencies that had voted against Thatcher, that had felt the brunt of the loss of hope under Thatcher.

But that is exactly what Labour has been trying to convey to them but they aren’t having it.
Why? because they are becoming TEM.

[Nearly Sane]

It seems to me that Brexit was to make the UK more like the US and the appeal was more untold riches. The attraction of Toryism to red wall is if you can’t beat em join em and prosper surely.

The logic of Brexit is wages going sky high once we stop immigration. Or controlling borders by letting anybody, from any where as long as they can afford an airfare and whatever their temperature aka no control at all as it is now practically known.

Nope. The jobs people feared for are not about being TEMs but low skilled work. The people that once voted Labour wanted protectionism not entrepreneurship. They were wanting to shut up shop not open businesses.

[jeremyp]

But the mystery is why the tolerance of having, where applicable, shit conditions, shit health, shit wages, shit prospects, employers ever profiting and all this run by public schoolboys, commentated on by public schoolboys and girls etc.........what’s the payoff?

If you are frightened of immigrants taking your job, the continuation of the shit conditions is actually the better outcome (in your mind).

Talking of the public schoolboys: they are generally making oodles of cash out of businesses that would be even more profitable with a cheap source of high quality labour such as immigrants supply. Why is the party of the public schoolboy against immigration? It's because they know it's a great issue to keep voters on their side. 

[jeremyp]

It seems to me that Brexit was to make the UK more like the US

No. Brexit was to stop the Tory party from self destructing and lance the boil that was UKIP. It has succeeded in both those aims but not in the way that David Cameron wanted.

and the appeal was more untold riches.

Nobody actually believed that except some of the voters.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No. Brexit was to stop the Tory party from self destructing and lance the boil that was UKIP. It has succeeded in both those aims but not in the way that David Cameron wanted.

Nobody actually believed that except some of the voters.

I think you are underplaying the pervasiveness of Celebrity culture I.e. people wanting to be Posh and Becks or at least enjoy a bit of the Champagne lifestyle.

Now apparently according to you and Nearly Sane people are prepared to eat shit instead. Really?

[Nearly Sane]

I think you are underplaying the pervasiveness of Celebrity culture I.e. people wanting to be Posh and Becks or at least enjoy a bit of the Champagne lifestyle.

Now apparently according to you and Nearly Sane people are prepared to eat shit instead. Really?

That's what they voted for.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

That's what they voted for.

Yes we know that. But why, what is the payoff?

[Nearly Sane]

Yes we know that. But why, what is the payoff?

British jobs for British workers. A return to the Empire. Remember it was older voters that went more for this. Not well known for TEMishness

[Roses]

The Empire was a huge blot on the UK's history! Without workers from other countries, we would be up the creek without a paddle, especially the NHS, which relies on them as there are not enough British trained doctors and nurses.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The Empire was a huge blot on the UK's history! Without workers from other countries, we would be up the creek without a paddle, especially the NHS, which relies on them as there are not enough British trained doctors and nurses.

Who else but a TEM would vote for the dissolution of the Health service, its replacement by a private health insurance system which only the well healed can afford and hospitals free to import staff from anywhere?

[Nearly Sane]

Who else but a TEM would vote for the dissolution of the Health service, its replacement by a private health insurance system which only the well healed can afford and hospitals free to import staff from anywhere?

Except the older voters who voted for Brexit voted for an extra 350m a week for the NHS and no health tourism.

[Roses]

None of the older voters of my acquaintance voted for Brexit, they wouldn't be that daft.