Author Topic: Football 2023 - 2024  (Read 27930 times)

Nearly Sane

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Football 2023 - 2024
« on: June 14, 2023, 11:29:09 AM »
It's harder than ever this year to see a gap in the football year , but I'm using the Champions League final as the end.

So off we go again
« Last Edit: July 03, 2023, 08:19:54 PM by Nearly Sane »

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 -2024
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2023, 11:32:18 AM »
So you decided that the Women's World Cup is in 23-24, not 22-23. Or are we going to have a separate thread?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 -2024
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2023, 11:38:37 AM »
So you decided that the Women's World Cup is in 23-24, not 22-23. Or are we going to have a separate thread?
I think a separate thread. My decision was arbitrary tonan extent but lots of football actually in the 23 -24 season will have kicked off by then.  The close season has been getting smaller for a long time and the timing of last year's World Cup made that almost impossible to see.

ETA - I was forgetting that I had prepared a Women's World Cup thread earlier

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=19666.0

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2023, 12:52:16 PM »
Well the sackings have started quickly


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65951241

Outrider

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2023, 01:39:55 PM »
Well the sackings have started quickly


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65951241

Well, my crew seem to be plumbing deeper and deeper - we were building up managers who go on to bigger and better things for a while. Martinez went on Belgium, Paolo Suze to Serie A, Brendan Rogers to Liverpool and Celtic, and then we took on a few managers who'd already achieved to take us further - Guidolin, Bob Bradley, and then back to people on the way up - Graham Potter, Steve Cooper.

This season? Russell Martin's jumping ship to go to a club who've just been relegated to the same league as us, and we're looking at a guy who just failed to get a team out of League 1....

They do make it hard to keep supporting, sometimes.

O.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 -2024
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2023, 10:35:54 AM »
Not a 'sacking' but another manager gone

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65956639

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Football 2023 -2024
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2023, 10:52:34 AM »
Bukayo Saka's second goal last night has to be one of the best in a very long while. Not just his touch, turn and finish, but Alexander-Arnold's quite astonishing pass. Sara said afterwards that Trent had said at half time that he was going to give Saka this pass, and boy was he right - a one-touch pass that Saka didn't have to break stride to take and must have been 40-50 yards.

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 -2024
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2023, 12:43:36 PM »
Not a 'sacking' but another manager gone

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65956639
Interesting, but, frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. If I were a manager that got my team promoted through the Championship playoffs, I would seriously consider quitting. Sheffield Wednesday is very likely to struggle next season and the manager will probably be the first casualty.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 -2024
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2023, 12:52:13 PM »
Interesting, but, frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. If I were a manager that got my team promoted through the Championship playoffs, I would seriously consider quitting. Sheffield Wednesday is very likely to struggle next season and the manager will probably be the first casualty.
Agree. I think that managers have in general been more 'loyal' than clubs, partly because they would have to give up the job  and if sacked they will likely get a bigger pay ooff. But if it's seen that they then lose cachet following a sacking, though that may be questionable, then the risk profile changes.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2023, 08:04:36 PM »
Interesting stance from Neville, not sure it's feasible


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65956434
« Last Edit: July 03, 2023, 08:19:02 PM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2023, 08:19:40 PM »
And Gerrard to manage in Saudi


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65889461

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2023, 10:35:23 PM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2023, 12:09:02 PM »
£259m bid for Mbappe from Saudi!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66291108

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2023, 12:54:22 PM »
£259m bid for Mbappe from Saudi!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66291108
Crazy money - but I doubt he'll go. He's 24 and surely he's going to want to win more stuff in the big European leagues. A move to Saudi etc is surely what players do for big money at the end of their careers.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2023, 01:31:44 PM »
Crazy money - but I doubt he'll go. He's 24 and surely he's going to want to win more stuff in the big European leagues. A move to Saudi etc is surely what players do for big money at the end of their careers.
I tend to agree but it is being indicated that this is a 1 season contract. If Mbappe stays at PSG for a year until a free transfer to Real, he's likely to only add a Ligue 1 title.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 01:36:52 PM by Nearly Sane »

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2023, 04:14:25 PM »
I tend to agree but it is being indicated that this is a 1 season contract. If Mbappe stays at PSG for a year until a free transfer to Real, he's likely to only add a Ligue 1 title.

He should move to Arsenal on a free transfer* He'll get all the games he wants and probably win the EPL, FA Cup and at least some European silverware.

*in my opinion
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2023, 04:18:52 PM »
I tend to agree but it is being indicated that this is a 1 season contract. If Mbappe stays at PSG for a year until a free transfer to Real, he's likely to only add a Ligue 1 title.
I get the argument, but it wouldn't be locked on that Real would move for him in a year's time. He'd have been kicking his heals with next to no properly competitive football and there is always the risk of injury. The world of transfers moves on - a player who seemed to be able to command top dollar one year can find their value rapidly goes down (or up in other cases).

Certainly taking what would be, in effect, a year's sabbatical smack in the middle of the your career would be unprecedented.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2023, 05:23:29 PM »
I get the argument, but it wouldn't be locked on that Real would move for him in a year's time. He'd have been kicking his heals with next to no properly competitive football and there is always the risk of injury. The world of transfers moves on - a player who seemed to be able to command top dollar one year can find their value rapidly goes down (or up in other cases).

Certainly taking what would be, in effect, a year's sabbatical smack in the middle of the your career would be unprecedented.

If it's a year's contract, he would be free to Real, just as he would be at the end of next year at PSG.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2023, 05:32:40 PM »
If it's a year's contract, he would be free to Real, just as he would be at the end of next year at PSG.
Sure - but he's available now to anyone prepared to shell out serious cash, which could include Real.

My point is that if he spends a year as a performing seal (as someone else not so eloquently put it) that might count against him as Real may lose interest. Other great players are available!!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 06:17:12 PM by ProfessorDavey »

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2023, 10:04:16 AM »
Sure - but he's available now to anyone prepared to shell out serious cash, which could include Real.
£260 million is more than serious cash.
Quote
My point is that if he spends a year as a performing seal (as someone else not so eloquently put it) that might count against him as Real may lose interest. Other great players are available!!
Are there any other players in Mbappé's class who are still on the right side of thirty?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2023, 10:34:28 AM »
£260 million is more than serious cash.Are there any other players in Mbappé's class who are still on the right side of thirty?
The rumours around the money he would be offered are almost incredible.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2023, 11:04:13 AM »
£260 million is more than serious cash.
But it is only a theoretical offer - that PSG seem happy to accept is largely irrelevant, I mean why wouldn't they. Whether or not it turns from something purely hypothetical onto something real is entirely dependent on whether Mbappe is interested in stepping aside from serious football for a year at the height of his career.

While his agent may be rather keen on the deal as they will also make a fortune, there are likely to be wiser heads cautioning that clubs will note that this move would make it clear that he's more interested in money than actually playing for a club and winning trophies. Those wise heads will also caution that a year playing non competitive football may render him off the pace and not properly match fit for the Euros next summer. So by summer 2024 we could have Mbappe, whose performances have simply vanished below the radar for a year, who disappoints at the Euros and is clearly known (by his actions) not really to be interested in playing for a big club rather than for the money.

And let's not forget that Mbappe turned down the chance to join Real Madrid last year - presumably because his head was turned by the money. So it is entirely possible that Real's interest will go cold for a player who has already turned them down and shown that he isn't interested in maximising the chances or winning big club trophies at big clubs at the peak of his career.

Are there any other players in Mbappé's class who are still on the right side of thirty?
Err Erling Haaland just to name one.

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2023, 11:42:30 AM »
But it is only a theoretical offer - that PSG seem happy to accept is largely irrelevant, I mean why wouldn't they. Whether or not it turns from something purely hypothetical onto something real is entirely dependent on whether Mbappe is interested in stepping aside from serious football for a year at the height of his career.
PSG would be foolish not to accept such an offer unless they can extend his contract. If they don't accept such an offer and they don't extend his contract, he can walk away next year for nothing. They paid €180 million (rumoured) for him. €300 million would be a good return and could finance some really good players.

Quote
While his agent may be rather keen on the deal as they will also make a fortune, there are likely to be wiser heads cautioning that clubs will note that this move would make it clear that he's more interested in money than actually playing for a club and winning trophies.
It's just business. Players are often putting money ahead of club. Don't forget top tier players are accustomed to lavish lifestyles and will be retiring in their mid thirties. They need to accumulate a lot of wealth during their careers in order to continue to live in the style to which they are accustomed. Players often make decisions that are bizarre from a footballing perspective but make financial sense. For example, anybody moving to Real Madrid (or previously Barcelona) who isn't absolutely exceptional risks never getting a game. They do it anyway for the pay cheque.

Quote
Those wise heads will also caution that a year playing non competitive football may render him off the pace and not properly match fit for the Euros next summer. So by summer 2024 we could have Mbappe, whose performances have simply vanished below the radar for a year, who disappoints at the Euros and is clearly known (by his actions) not really to be interested in playing for a big club rather than for the money.

It might temporarily take the edge off his ability but it wouldn't be as bad as a player coming back from a long term injury and that happens routinely. If after a year he comes back with a price tag of say €150 million, there will be plenty of clubs lining up to sign him. He'll still only be 25 at that time.

Quote
And let's not forget that Mbappe turned down the chance to join Real Madrid last year - presumably because his head was turned by the money. So it is entirely possible that Real's interest will go cold for a player who has already turned them down and shown that he isn't interested in maximising the chances or winning big club trophies at big clubs at the peak of his career.
PSG is, or at least has been as much a vehicle for winning trophies as Real Madrid. They haven't won the ECL yet, but you wouldn't bet against them.

Of course, there's another possible motive for staying at PSG and that is that it is a French club and Mbappé is French. Footballers have made decisions based on geography in the past.
Quote
Err Erling Haaland just to name one.
Haaland is not in Mbappé's class. He's a top striker but he needs a good team behind him to provide service (Norway - Scotland shows us what happens when he doesn't get it). Mbappé is a much more complete player.

Side note: Haaland is qualified to play cricket for Yorkshire.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2023, 11:47:35 AM by jeremyp »
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2023, 12:17:39 PM »
PSG would be foolish not to accept such an offer unless they can extend his contract. If they don't accept such an offer and they don't extend his contract, he can walk away next year for nothing. They paid €180 million (rumoured) for him. €300 million would be a good return and could finance some really good players.
Of course it is a great deal for PSG - the additional bonus being that for at least one year they won't have Mbappe potentially playing against them for another team in the Champions League.

But PSG aren't in control of the deal - it only happens if Mbappe agrees to move. That's what you seem to be missing. If Mbappe says 'sure, I'll kick my heals for a year', then it is deal done. If, on the other hand Mbappe, says 'no', then the pressure increases on PSG to accept a lower offer from another club that Mbappe is prepared to sign for, or run the risk that he'll end up being able to go for free next summer.

The point being that Mbappe's signature (which is Mbappe's decision), rather than PSG agreeing a fee to sell is the key.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2023, 12:25:01 PM »
Haaland is not in Mbappé's class.
Really - I think that Harland is absolutely in Mbappe's class and has made the shift from a small club to a big one competing at the top level astonishingly well. He's a different type of player, so to an extent you are comparing apples with oranges, but currently I think it is pretty hard to argue that Harland and Mbappe aren't in the same class.

Mbappe hasn't really enhanced his position in the 22/23 season while Harland has, frankly, blitzed it both domestically and in Europe.

Will be interesting to see who win's the various player of the season awards for the past year - suspect Harland and Vini Jn, plus possibly DeBruijn will be ahead of Mbappe.