What if...

[Sassy]

Reading the topic on president Trump, I thought what if, we looked at it all from another way.

The bible tells us that no matter who reigns or powers that there be, Gods will will always be done in the end.

King James Bible
There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

King James Bible
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:


We see why Jews and Christians who are all part of the last covenant and Jews the first also, have no fear of the coming days because all things work for good to believers in God and the end was told from the beginning.

Anyone with belief knows God has it all in hand.

I often believe our Queen understood this. Queen Elizabeth must have looked at all these people in power trying to work things around her and had no problem with it because she knew God alone was in charge and he alone working towards the world good.

It has been told...man may fool mankind but not God.

Do you worry about the future? Man has turned against man so how does it end. the bible does tell us. How can a man like T

[Maeght]

I worry about the future, yes. So ........ what?

[Nearly Sane]

So Hitler was "God's will"

[Sassy]

I worry about the future, yes. So ........ what?

SOwhat....your reasons for worrying? I am unsure of thevway you have wrote your post.

It is a statement rather than a reasoned response.  Being worried requires your explanation for those fears.

[Sassy]

So Hitler was "God's will"

Does man having free will suggest Hitlers life and actions was God's will. Free will does not suggest Hitlers choice to commit evil was anything but Hitlers will. God knowing the end from the beginning does not in any way suggest Hitler did God's will.

[Aruntraveller]

God knowing the end from the beginning does not in any way suggest Hitler did God's will.

It does suggest he was indifferent to suffering. It also suggests that although he can change things according to his followers, he chose not to.

Certainly, an interesting mindset you posit.

[torridon]

Does man having free will suggest Hitlers life and actions was God's will. Free will does not suggest Hitlers choice to commit evil was anything but Hitlers will. God knowing the end from the beginning does not in any way suggest Hitler did God's will.

So, God is not 'in charge' then.  By devolving power in the form of 'free will' to humans, God's power is reduced.

[Outrider]

Does man having free will suggest Hitlers life and actions was God's will. Free will does not suggest Hitlers choice to commit evil was anything but Hitlers will. God knowing the end from the beginning does not in any way suggest Hitler did God's will.

So what Trump is doing is God's plan, but what Hitler did was all Hitler? How long after Trump's finished do we get to upgrade his bullshit to 'free will'?

O.

[Maeght]

SOwhat....your reasons for worrying? I am unsure of thevway you have wrote your post.

It is a statement rather than a reasoned response.  Being worried requires your explanation for those fears.

Bit of the pot calling the kettle black saying you were unsure of the way I wrote my post. My post was essentially asking what you were trying to say.

I am worried about the way the world is going with right win politics, decline in democracy, climate change, the potential spread of war in Europe, etc etc.

[jeremyp]

Reading the topic on president Trump, I thought what if, we looked at it all from another way.

The bible tells us that no matter who reigns or powers that there be, Gods will will always be done in the end.

King James Bible
There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

King James Bible
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:


We see why Jews and Christians who are all part of the last covenant and Jews the first also, have no fear of the coming days because all things work for good to believers in God and the end was told from the beginning.

Anyone with belief knows God has it all in hand.

I often believe our Queen understood this. Queen Elizabeth must have looked at all these people in power trying to work things around her and had no problem with it because she knew God alone was in charge and he alone working towards the world good.

It has been told...man may fool mankind but not God.

Do you worry about the future? Man has turned against man so how does it end. the bible does tell us. How can a man like T

It's all very well saying God's will will be done in the end, but certain people seem intent win causing misery for other people and God doesn't seem to be doing much to stop it.

It would have been small comfort to those people in Auschwitz to know God's will will eventually be done.

You can't have it both ways, Sassy. Either Hitler was God's will or God had no control over Hitler. If the same is true of Tr*mp, there's going to be a lot of chaos and misery either way.

[Sassy]

It does suggest he was indifferent to suffering. It also suggests that although he can change things according to his followers, he chose not to.

Certainly, an interesting mindset you posit.

I am not sure that we can look at God being indifferent to suffering. Look at Jesus, he had to choose what happened to him. Jesus said, "no one takes his life from him he gives it us freely"
He could call to his Father and he would send legions of Angels to save him.
His followers...Chose to do Gods will.

[Sassy]

So Hitler was "God's will"

All things work together for good. What God did was allow man to be saved from his sin.

[Sassy]

So what Trump is doing is God's plan, but what Hitler did was all Hitler? How long after Trump's finished do we get to upgrade his bullshit to 'free will'?

O.

What makes you think the way you do about Trump?   You chose to believe as you do. no one made you/

[Sassy]

Bit of the pot calling the kettle black saying you were unsure of the way I wrote my post. My post was essentially asking what you were trying to say.

I am worried about the way the world is going with right win politics, decline in democracy, climate change, the potential spread of war in Europe, etc etc.

Should we be worried?  Right wing politics...the bible predicts the hearing of war and even famine.  The end times are going to horrid for all.

[Sassy]

It's all very well saying God's will will be done in the end, but certain people seem intent win causing misery for other people and God doesn't seem to be doing much to stop it.

It would have been small comfort to those people in Auschwitz to know God's will will eventually be done.

You can't have it both ways, Sassy. Either Hitler was God's will or God had no control over Hitler. If the same is true of Tr*mp, there's going to be a lot of chaos and misery either way.

Why could the devil not have caused the bad things?
We know God wins in the end,

[ad_orientem]

We know God wins in the end,

We don't though, do we. That's just an article of faith, which is fine for those that have it, but for those of us that don't, it's seems like indifference.

[Outrider]

What makes you think the way you do about Trump?   You chose to believe as you do. no one made you/

The same thing that makes me think the way I do about Hitler - observing the impact of his decisions on people. What makes you think that they're different?

O.

[Maeght]

Why could the devil not have caused the bad things?
We know God wins in the end,

Because the devil doesn't exist? Anyway, didn't God create the devil according to Christian beliefs (God created everything and knew his creation would become the devil.)

You believe God wins in the end but no, we don't know that.

[Maeght]

Should we be worried?  Right wing politics...the bible predicts the hearing of war and even famine.  The end times are going to horrid for all.

Don't really care what the Bible supposedly predicts and don't believe in the End Times.

[Sassy]

We don't though, do we. That's just an article of faith, which is fine for those that have it, but for those of us that don't, it's seems like indifference.

Christ said we are to live in Spirit and Truth.

Believers, live by faith and that faith like Christ and Moses then becomes  sight of the  things we hope for.
Moses was told by God he would not enter the promised land. Did that mean he would suddenly become sick and die.
We know that Moses and the people he lead to the promised land had clothes and shoes that never wore out.
Moses after 40 years climbed a mountain to see the promised Land he never entered.
The bible tells us much more about the people of God. He provides for their needs even sent manna from heaven.

My faith and troubles lead me to a closer walk with God. I speak only from personal experience. Just a closer walk with thee. Grant it Jesus, this my plea.
Moses spoke with God, faith reveals God to us through faith in what Jesus did for us.

If, we doubt Gods word we are doubting God himself. Christ is the living word where Gods Promise of the Messiah became the word made flesh.
A relationship with God is built on faith. the wise man built his house upon the rock but  the other  man built his house upon the sand.
A teaching from Sunday School days. My faith, is built on two things. God and his word. God is not a liar. Does what is happening in the world not look Good and bother me. Of course it does.
But Gods peace passes understanding. God is not a liar. My relationship had to stand the test of doubt but when I looked away from self and stood and believed Gods word was truth and only
mattered because he was there. Then Gods  can be trusted. When we doubt it is not the written word it is God we doubt.

The difficult times in my life when the floor collapses under you, the one person I put myself in the hands of, was God.

This is personal experience. I looked away from myself and what I was facing. I spoke to God and told him the truth I could not get myself through this and put myself in his hands.
He brought me through it. Just as he cared for the prophet in the wilderness, he got birds to feed him.
Why would Jesus, suffer and die, if he did not know God?


I found, that if I looked and God and what Christ did it taught me how to face the things I could not.
The word of God is important.  God never leaves us, and whatever we go through he goes through it with us..,

It teaches us to rely on God and to become humble before him.. Loving him for who he is... our Father. Anyway, just a pointer of a believers look at personal faith.

[Sassy]

So, God is not 'in charge' then.  By devolving power in the form of 'free will' to humans, God's power is reduced.

Torridon,

Do you agree with what Hitler did with Gods people and the worlds disabled people?  Not just Jews went to the gas chambers.
the worlds disabled amongst us were classed as the imperfect of mankind. He wanted a perfect race.  Why would God, let his Messiah heal the sick even Gentiles
if he wanted them dead. The world only became imperfect when Adam fell. Not Eve as Eve was only told by Adam not to eat that food from the tree.
Adam was told by GOD. Adam told by God so could not longer eat from the tree of life.

God did not bring death and disease to mankind, Adam did it...

God makes things whole again. My daughter is disabled severely mentally impaired. Hitler would have had her killed.  We can with or without faith reason things through.
Anyone who can do those things which Hitler ordered to human beings have no knowledge of the Love of God. Loving your neighbour as yourself is Gods way of teaching us to love not hurt each other.

God in charge he ensure the people are to. Fear and suffering inflicted on others is never Gods way. But man did it. Hitler a human being and he and his men were evil.

[Gordon]

Torridon,

Do you agree with what Hitler did with Gods people and the worlds disabled people?  Not just Jews went to the gas chambers.
the worlds disabled amongst us were classed as the imperfect of mankind. He wanted a perfect race.  Why would God, let his Messiah heal the sick even Gentiles
if he wanted them dead. The world only became imperfect when Adam fell. Not Eve as Eve was only told by Adam not to eat that food from the tree.
Adam was told by GOD. Adam told by God so could not longer eat from the tree of life.

God did not bring death and disease to mankind, Adam did it...

God makes things whole again. My daughter is disabled severely mentally impaired. Hitler would have had her killed.  We can with or without faith reason things through.
Anyone who can do those things which Hitler ordered to human beings have no knowledge of the Love of God. Loving your neighbour as yourself is Gods way of teaching us to love not hurt each other.

God in charge he ensure the people are to. Fear and suffering inflicted on others is never Gods way. But man did it. Hitler a human being and he and his men were evil.

And yet your 'omni' God did nothing.

[torridon]

Torridon,

Do you agree with what Hitler did with Gods people and the worlds disabled people?  Not just Jews went to the gas chambers.
the worlds disabled amongst us were classed as the imperfect of mankind. He wanted a perfect race.  Why would God, let his Messiah heal the sick even Gentiles
if he wanted them dead. The world only became imperfect when Adam fell. Not Eve as Eve was only told by Adam not to eat that food from the tree.
Adam was told by GOD. Adam told by God so could not longer eat from the tree of life.

God did not bring death and disease to mankind, Adam did it...

God makes things whole again. My daughter is disabled severely mentally impaired. Hitler would have had her killed.  We can with or without faith reason things through.
Anyone who can do those things which Hitler ordered to human beings have no knowledge of the Love of God. Loving your neighbour as yourself is Gods way of teaching us to love not hurt each other.

God in charge he ensure the people are to. Fear and suffering inflicted on others is never Gods way. But man did it. Hitler a human being and he and his men were evil.

Which all goes to show that God is not in charge, by his own volition.  If you keep your dogs on a leash, then you are in charge of them.  However if you unleash the dogs of war, then you are no longer in charge of them.  By giving mankind freewill, God abdicated his former position of being in charge.

[jeremyp]

God in charge he ensure the people are to. Fear and suffering inflicted on others is never Gods way. But man did it. Hitler a human being and he and his men were evil.

So did Hitler do the things he did because of God's plan or in spite of God's plan?

[Steve H]

God’s plan made a hopeful beginning.
But man spoiled his chances by sinning.
We trust that the story
Will end in God’s glory,
But at present the other side’s winning.

Oliver Wendell Holmes