Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 5055892 times)

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52125 on: June 16, 2025, 07:08:51 PM »
You seem to think that if you could only get those damned atheists to concede there is a necessary being, your task is achieved.No I have said that even mere intellectual assent does not a Christian make You have the air of a man who complains about the shit around him, yet fails to check his own underpants.
Yea, right. And every thinking person throughout history who became aware of the unimaginable horrors that have existed in the world through the vast epochs of evolution never ever considered they might be contributing to some extent? Woddywant me to do, stop digging the garden in case I cut a worm in two? Does it make Christians feel better if they keep beating their breasts saying "Woe is me, sinner that I am"?
I've seen the crippling effect of guilt on people, and sometimes the Christian remedy of saying "You are forgiven" can provide relief. You seem to want all of us to wallow in collective guilt.
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

Enki

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52126 on: June 16, 2025, 09:09:54 PM »
I think that one mans critical thinking is another mans scientism, no matter what one pleads.
What you wish to think is entirely up to you but as I am not into scientism, that isn't of any significance for me.

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Why is God invisible in the physical sense?

I asked for evidence of God, not particularly its visibility.

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Observation we are told affects the observed God is unchanging and is not observed.

Is this supposed to be two sentences?  In which case, the second sentence is just a rather vague assertion

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One might also ponder what something that is everywhere at anytime looks like to our eyes.

Again, I am asking for evidence for God, not what it looks like.

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So much for physicality. But there are other ways of seeing....and avoiding seeing.

Or, alternatively, one can convince oneself that god is being 'seen' .... and avoiding that it is not being 'seen' at all. Your particular god is supposed to have come to earth in the human form of Jesus, so, so much for physicality indeed.

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That is the purpose of philosophy and conscience.

As far as conscience goes, there is biological evidence that it resides in the brain and it may have evolved as a social survival mechanism. As far as philosophy is concerned, there are many different and often conflicting ideas about what god is or what god is not or even if there is a god.

Sometimes I wish my first word was 'quote,' so that on my death bed, my last words could be 'end quote.'
Steven Wright

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52127 on: July 22, 2025, 06:04:25 PM »
It's been quiet on this thread for over a month now - has the search been called off I wonder.

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52128 on: August 05, 2025, 11:39:31 PM »
The search is only for those who do not know God.
Once found, how can you search any longer.  I have lost more than my fair share of family over the years. I have had my share of disappointments but it is always humans who cause those, not God..... I feel my world change, as each person I love leaves my world. I am never amazed how much people hurt others but never really think about their treatment of others. Faith makes you more enemies than anything else in life.

But people who love at all times are probably the wisest people here. I believe in God but over the years I have had actual encounters and the last couple of years he has shown himself in different ways. So the search still on for others..
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52129 on: August 05, 2025, 11:51:35 PM »
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Clanging gongs and empty vessels come to mind... ::)


And you, my dear Sass, are without doubt the loudest and emptiest of the lot! Congratulations!

Was so sad you passed away Leonard and it was some time before we knew. x
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52130 on: September 05, 2025, 10:12:13 AM »
I asked for evidence of God, not particularly its visibility.
The evidence of God lies in you.
Do you honestly believe that every thought, word or deed you consciously invoke is merely unavoidable reactions to past events which are beyond your control?  The materialist scenario allows us no freedom - we would be entirely determined by past events over which we have no conscious control.  We cannot control the past.

Once you realise that the true source of your freedom cannot be determined by material reactions alone, your are free to seek the real truth - the truth that sets you free.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52131 on: September 05, 2025, 11:46:47 AM »
The evidence of God lies in you.
Do you honestly believe that every thought, word or deed you consciously invoke is merely unavoidable reactions to past events which are beyond your control?  The materialist scenario allows us no freedom - we would be entirely determined by past events over which we have no conscious control.  We cannot control the past.

Once you realise that the true source of your freedom cannot be determined by material reactions alone, your are free to seek the real truth - the truth that sets you free.
Thanks Alan, for once again demonstrating how a biological brain is able to function without the requirement of an unevidenced, can only work if magic invoked..."soul"!
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52132 on: September 05, 2025, 01:38:55 PM »
Thanks Alan, for once again demonstrating how a biological brain is able to function without the requirement of an unevidenced, can only work if magic invoked..."soul"!
My ability to consciously demonstrate anything offers ample evidence that I have the freedom to guide my own thoughts to offer justification for my beliefs - there is ample evidence on this thread that such freedom is beyond any materialistic explanation.  It is not magic - magic is an illusion.  It is a demonstrable reality derived from the God given power of our human soul.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52133 on: September 05, 2025, 01:45:59 PM »
My ability to consciously demonstrate anything offers ample evidence that I have the freedom to guide my own thoughts to offer justification for my beliefs - there is ample evidence on this thread that such freedom is beyond any materialistic explanation.  It is not magic - magic is an illusion.  It is a demonstrable reality derived from the God given power of our human soul.
As pointed out any number of times in this thread, you have just created an infinite regress of thoughts.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52134 on: September 05, 2025, 06:27:19 PM »
As pointed out any number of times in this thread, you have just created an infinite regress of thoughts.
Hang on, in the necessary being argument, infinite regresses were OK. Now you seem to be portraying them as worse than the clap.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52135 on: September 05, 2025, 06:33:40 PM »
Hang on, in the necessary being argument, infinite regresses were OK. Now you seem to be portraying them as worse than the clap.
Can you show me anywhere where I have said infinite regresses are fine? And also note this one applies to all choices made.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52136 on: September 05, 2025, 07:09:15 PM »
Can you show me anywhere where I have said infinite regresses are fine? And also note this one applies to all choices made.
I don't recall your condemnation of them at all and yet here you are.

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52137 on: September 05, 2025, 07:18:53 PM »
I don't recall your condemnation of them at all and yet here you are.

Be careful with all that straw, Vlad: suggest you keep your matches in your pocket.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52138 on: September 05, 2025, 07:26:51 PM »
I don't recall your condemnation of them at all and yet here you are.
So that means you have no evidence for claiming I supported them. Positive claim as you often point out needs evidence. Wouldn't want you to be a hypocrite.

Enki

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #52139 on: September 06, 2025, 03:14:59 PM »

Let's examine your response in more detail then.

The quote that I made and to which you refer("I asked for evidence of God, not particularly its visibility.") was part of a response to Vlad, who was emphasising that God wouldn't be physically visible. This was in response to my suggesting that critical thinking was a particularly helpful approach in order to be aware of confirmation bias and to be able to  evaluate information. So, let's examine your statement:

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The evidence of God lies in you.

By this I have to assume that you think that you mean subjective evidence. I would accept that this is a form of evidence but it can be extremely unreliable. It is based on personal perception and internal experiences and can differ wildly from person to person. So, for instance, if I were to look within myself to find evidence of God, as you suggest, my internal experiences lead me to the conclusion that there are no gods whatever. So, if I were led solely by my personal experiences then I would no doubt say that there are no gods at all. However, I don't say that because, using critical thinking, I am unable to make such outright assertions. I simply suggest that I know of no convincing evidence for any of the gods that I have knowledge of, including yours. Furthermore, I find a fair amount of evidence against the idea of an interventionist god.

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Do you honestly believe that every thought, word or deed you consciously invoke is merely unavoidable reactions to past events which are beyond your control?  The materialist scenario allows us no freedom - we would be entirely determined by past events over which we have no conscious control.  We cannot control the past.

Whenever you use the word 'you' 'your' or 'we' in the above, for the purposes of the argument, I would substitute the idea of a brain instead.

Therefore, as long as you include all sorts of influences(e.g. genetic make up), include any interactions to past events which may have a bearing on the brain's decision making process(which are also part of the past events scenario) and allow for the random probablities inherent in a possible quantum secenario, then the answer to your question is emphatically yes, even though you seem to question it in your usual incredulous manner.

I find this interview given by the neural philospher, Patricia Churchland, to be generally applicable  to my own views.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029450-200-the-benefits-of-realising-youre-just-a-brain/

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Once you realise that the true source of your freedom cannot be determined by material reactions alone, your are free to seek the real truth - the truth that sets you free.

This is clearly an assertion on your part. Not only is it an assertion, it also smacks of being a deepity which says nothing of significance either about truth(whatever that is) or freedom.

Finally it seems that you can't leave your pet ideas alone, even though they've been debunked time and time again on this forum. For better or worse, I find your views to be extremely blinkered(as you probably do mine). As I am not in the slightest business of trying to convert you, I simply wish you well.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2025, 04:00:00 PM by Enki »
Sometimes I wish my first word was 'quote,' so that on my death bed, my last words could be 'end quote.'
Steven Wright