Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on June 28, 2019, 08:56:09 AM
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With the Dems having started their debate with a cast of thousands and old Uncle Joe Biden an'all, It's time to start a thread on this. The main problems for the Dems is that this is both an ideological battle, and a personality battle with so many candidates that they become ciphers rather than real.
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Quite incredible that the number of candidates is reducing this slowly. We're still five and half months away from the Iowa caucus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
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Even if Sanders recovers, I suspect this is the effective end. Interesting where his supporters go.
.https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-78-canceled-events-notice-hospitalized/story?id=66003850&cid=share_facebook_widget&fbclid=IwAR2_0nsOdtytWPYjeG9iNaBzsMfVHn0RDblFJZB64oHCpUeD4TzTCQeo_Pw
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Heart problems or not, I think someone of Sander's age is not suitable to be POTUS due to the undoubted stress involved in holding such a high office.
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Heart problems or not, I think someone of Sander's age is not suitable to be POTUS due to the undoubted stress involved in holding such a high office.
There was a brief piece about this on Radio 4's 'More or Less' last week (maybe the week before?) talking about the average odds of someone of elevated age dying during a four year term - I think it looked at Trump, Sanders and Elizabeth Warren as the over-70's candidates and suggested there was between a 10 and 20% chance. Of course, that's an average for the nation, and their individual medical circumstances would alter those chances.
It's the visible impact of it happening on the news, for me, that scuppers Sanders chances. The Democrats probably can't afford to put him forward as their candidate and face the entire election campaign with Republicans and neutrals openly wondering if he'll survive the four years.
O.
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I love Bernie, but I must sadly agree about his age ruling him out. Let's just hope Hilary doesn't decide to try again - she's electoral poison for the Democrats.
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I would be surprised if HC stood again.
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Heart problems or not, I think someone of Sander's age is not suitable to be POTUS due to the undoubted stress involved in holding such a high office.
I agree. The same applies to Joe Biden. In fact, I'm not thrilled about Elizabeth Warren's age although she is younger than the incumbent.
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I love Bernie, but I must sadly agree about his age ruling him out. Let's just hope Hilary doesn't decide to try again - she's electoral poison for the Democrats.
Well she's not standing. It's really too late to join in now.
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Sanders now 16/1 in terms of odds for being the candidate. Warren evens, Biden 4/1, Yang 16/1.
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I love Bernie, but I must sadly agree about his age ruling him out. Let's just hope Hilary doesn't decide to try again - she's electoral poison for the Democrats.
Various attempts at testing the electoral water going on as regards Hillary
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Various attempts at testing the electoral water going on as regards Hillary
She's not going to stand. Forget about it.
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She's not going to stand. Forget about it.
Doesn't mean that there aren't various attempts to test the electoral water.
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Doesn't mean that there aren't various attempts to test the electoral water.
The people testing the electoral water should just forget about it too.
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The people testing the electoral water should just forget about it too.
I agree. But I don't think we should just forget that something that is happening is happening.
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I agree. But I don't think we should just forget that something that is happening is happening.
Why not if it's not going to lead to anything. There's plenty of stuff to worry about with respect to the US elections (namely: what if Trump wins), without unimportant crap.
The things I worry about wrt the US general election are things like: what if Biden or Sanders gets the Democratic nomination?
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Why not if it's not going to lead to anything. There's plenty of stuff to worry about with respect to the US elections (namely: what if Trump wins), without unimportant crap.
The things I worry about wrt the US general election are things like: what if Biden or Sanders gets the Democratic nomination?
Whose worrying about it? Why shouldn't it be worth noting what's happening? And given other people will notice what is happening perhaps it will have an effect in ways you don't know.
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Whose
"Who's".
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What goes on across the pond certainly has an impact on us. If Trump gets in again it would be very bad news indeed.
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What goes on across the pond certainly has an impact on us. If Trump gets in again it would be very bad news indeed.
What actions has Trump taken that have so far had effects on the UK, and what are those effects? For all the fears that he was bringing about Armageddon, we don't really seem that much closer. Note, that isn't to say that he's a good president, nor that there aren't many people who have been badly effected by his decisions but just that so far I can't see that the UK has been adversely affected.
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Oh and the current odds are 5/6 Democrat win, 11/10 Republican win.
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What actions has Trump taken that have so far had effects on the UK, and what are those effects? For all the fears that he was bringing about Armageddon, we don't really seem that much closer. Note, that isn't to say that he's a good president, nor that there aren't many people who have been badly effected by his decisions but just that so far I can't see that the UK has been adversely affected.
Of course what Trump says and does has an effect on us and the rest of the planet, when it comes to him threatening to take military action, or nuke a country like he did with North Korea, it ratchets up the tension no end.
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Oh and the current odds are 5/6 Democrat win, 11/10 Republican win.
Not being a betting man, nor a mathematician, forgive me asking - which is most likely?
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Not being a betting man, nor a mathematician, forgive me asking - which is most likely?
It's saying that the Dems are believed to be slightly more likely to win but that it's essentially 50/50. Odds where the first nimber is lower than the second as in 5/6 are referred to as odds on - that is the outcome is more likely than not. Here 5/6 represent that the Dems are believed to win in 6 (second number) out of 11 (6+5, first number) times. The Reps odds are indicating that they are believed to win 10 (second number again) out of 21 (10+11, first number) times. Hope that helps.
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Thanks.
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Of course what Trump says and does has an effect on us and the rest of the planet, when it comes to him threatening to take military action, or nuke a country like he did with North Korea, it ratchets up the tension no end.
But sometimes threats will lead to peace - Obama never managed to meet with Kim - Trump has. Is there anything concrete that you can point to that Trump has done that has adversely affected the UK that would be addressed by one of the Democrats?
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But sometimes threats will lead to peace - Obama never managed to meet with Kim - Trump has. Is there anything concrete that you can point to that Trump has done that has adversely affected the UK that would be addressed by one of the Democrats?
Hmmmmmmmmmm!
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Hmmmmmmmmmm!
Ok, I'll give you some help. Trade tariffs. The question is whether a Democrat would have done much the same.
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Ok, I'll give you some help. Trade tariffs. The question is whether a Democrat would have done much the same.
Are US trade tariffs a good thing, I have heard otherwise?
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Are US trade tariffs a good thing, I have heard otherwise?
I didn't say they were. I was offering something that you might use to make the argument about something Trump had done that had been bad for the UK, see link below. It's difficult to know what Clinton would have done here though as tarfiifs had been used by Democrat presidents as well.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/whisky-bears-brunt-of-eu-us-trade-war-that-s-nothing-to-do-with-it-ian-mckendrick-1-5028388
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Depends what trade war you are engaged in.
Trump has also affected the UK (as a European nation) on:
- Brexit, flaunting offers of trade deals
- Climate change
- Iran deal and trade sanctions
- Syria, handing over power to Russia
- China trade war/ Huawei
- Lying about London governance
We can never know what Clinton would have done or what would have resulted - so not worth considering?
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Depends what trade war you are engaged in.
Trump has also affected the UK (as a European nation) on:
- Brexit, flaunting offers of trade deals
- Climate change
- Iran deal and trade sanctions
- Syria, handing over power to Russia
- China trade war/ Huawei
- Lying about London governance
We can never know what Clinton would have done or what would have resulted - so not worth considering?
Which then surely makes any statement about him being bad as opposed to Clinton, or whomever might win next time worthless? It means that we can only argue about the individual policy, and Trump essentially becomes irrelevant.
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Which then surely makes any statement about him being bad as opposed to Clinton, or whomever might win next time worthless? It means that we can only argue about the individual policy, and Trump essentially becomes irrelevant.
Yes, I think so. Though there are some actions only taken because of Trump's individual misconceptions, errors, quirks or foolery - eg. N Korea rapprochement/disengagement, abandonment of the Kurds... policy is key, but events can directed or triggered by individual actions/statements - just like Scottish Independence refs.
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Yes, I think so. Though there are some actions only taken because of Trump's individual misconceptions, errors, quirks or foolery - eg. N Korea rapprochement/disengagement, abandonment of the Kurds... policy is key, but events can directed or triggered by individual actions/statements - just like Scottish Independence refs.
I think as you note there is more uncertainty about what Trump's actions will be but I'm not sure if that makes things worse or better. In individual cases like the Kurds we can say that they are worse off because of Trump's actions but despite that, I'm not sure that Democrat policy and whatever quirks Clinton would have brought, or whoever might get elected next time's quirks, would mean that we would be substantially in a different place. The biggest effect of this and next presidency, if it is Trump, vs the Democrats, is I think the Supreme Court but that's just a Republican v Democrat thing, not specifically a Trump thing.
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Meant to put this up a couple of days ago. Bloomberg enters the race. Feels despite it still being months away from any actual primaries etc to be too late.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50539242
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Bloomberg is 77, I would have thought the inevitable strain of putting himself up as a candidate at that age could have a deleterious affect on his health.
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Bloomberg is 77, I would have thought the inevitable strain of putting himself up as a candidate at that age could have a deleterious affect on his health.
Isn't that up to him?
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But sometimes threats will lead to peace - Obama never managed to meet with Kim - Trump has. Is there anything concrete that you can point to that Trump has done that has adversely affected the UK that would be addressed by one of the Democrats?
Sticking his fingers up at environmental protection, in particular not taking climate change seriously.
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Ok, I'll give you some help. Trade tariffs. The question is whether a Democrat would have done much the same.
The answer is no.
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Bloomberg is 77, I would have thought the inevitable strain of putting himself up as a candidate at that age could have a deleterious affect on his health.
It's not just that. Your faculties inevitably fade with age. Biden and Sanders are also too old and Elizabeth Warren is marginal.
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Sticking his fingers up at environmental protection, in particular not taking climate change seriously.
What would Clinton have actually done that would make a difference?
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It's not just that. Your faculties inevitably fade with age. Biden and Sanders are also too old and Elizabeth Warren is marginal.
At present the Democrats don't seem to have a suitable candidate who will appeal to the voters.
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What would Clinton have actually done that would make a difference?
Not sticking up her fingers at environmental protection.
No trade war with Europe.
Not thrown the Kurds under the bus.
Not withhold military aide from Ukraine in exchange for smearing her opponents.
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Clinton stated the other week that she might consider standing as candidate at the coming election.
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Not sticking up her fingers at environmental protection.
No trade war with Europe.
Not thrown the Kurds under the bus.
Not withhold military aide from Ukraine in exchange for smearing her opponents.
what would she have actually done on the environment that would have made a difference?
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what would she have actually done on the environment that would have made a difference?
Stayed in the Paris Accord, not cleansed the EPA of scientists in favour of coal and oil lobbyists, not censored the output of government agencies trying to inform the electorate about the realities of climate science and climate change, not approved tax breaks for coal mining, not removed the protected status of environmentally protected areas to permit oil drilling...
She could have made a difference by just sitting on her hands and not actively working to undermine the individuals and agencies working to protect the American people (and everyone else) from themselves.
O.
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Stayed in the Paris Accord, not cleansed the EPA of scientists in favour of coal and oil lobbyists, not censored the output of government agencies trying to inform the electorate about the realities of climate science and climate change, not approved tax breaks for coal mining, not removed the protected status of environmentally protected areas to permit oil drilling...
She could have made a difference by just sitting on her hands and not actively working to undermine the individuals and agencies working to protect the American people (and everyone else) from themselves.
O.
And would this have meant that climate change was in any sense less likely to happen?
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And would this have meant that climate change was in any sense less likely to happen?
Climate change is already happening - these would have lessened the speed and severity of it's development, giving us more time to develop the political and technological solutions to the ongoing escalation, and to better prepare for the impacts that already can't be avoided. It wouldn't have 'stopped' climate change, but it would have been a better position going forward.
O.
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what would she have actually done on the environment that would have made a difference?
Not dismantling the EPA. Not leaving the Paris Climate Accord. Do you need more?
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Not dismantling the EPA. Not leaving the Paris Climate Accord. Do you need more?
Yes, would that actually have made a difference?
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Yes, would that actually have made a difference?
Of course it would. Why are you pretending to be a moron?
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Of course it would. Why are you pretending to be a moron?
Then demonstrate it rather than assert it.
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Then demonstrate it rather than assert it.
Demonstrate how not removing regulations designed to protect the environment is better for the environment than removing regulations designed to protect the environment? Why are you pretending to be a moron?
I notice you've conveniently forgotten about the other items in the list.
Do you think Hillary would have withdrawn US troops from Syria thus facilitating Turkey's attempts to genocide the Kurds?
Do you think Hillary would have entered into a costly trade war with China and the EU?
Do you think Hillary would have extorted foreign powers to dig up dirt on her political rivals?
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Demonstrate how not removing regulations designed to protect the environment is better for the environment than removing regulations designed to protect the environment? Why are you pretending to be a moron?
I notice you've conveniently forgotten about the other items in the list.
Do you think Hillary would have withdrawn US troops from Syria thus facilitating Turkey's attempts to genocide the Kurds?
Do you think Hillary would have entered into a costly trade war with China and the EU?
Do you think Hillary would have extorted foreign powers to dig up dirt on her political rivals?
No, I'm just ignoring them because I had been looking at the climate change question. I think the regulations we have now amount to window dressing. I don't think they deal with climate change.
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No, I'm just ignoring them because I had been looking at the climate change question. I think the regulations we have now amount to window dressing. I don't think they deal with climate change.
Leaving the Paris Accord is not conducive to getting effective regulations wouldn't you say? Not to mention that climate change is not the only environmental issue in the world.
Not to mention that this is a thread not just about the environment but about the US general election in 2020.
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So 7 candidates will be in Thursday's debates, even though there are still lots of contenders beyond that - Kamala Harris dropping out for lack of resources a couple of weeks ago even though she would have qualified. The amount of money being spent on this will be huge.
https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2019/12/six-candidates-quality-for-december-democratic-debate/
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And at last we get to some actual voting
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51330443
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And at last we get to some actual voting
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51330443
At last.
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Though the first attempts at voting have had their problems
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51367291
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51582025
US lawmakers are accusing Russia of assisting the White House clown to win this year's presidential election. It appears Trump needed his buddy Putin's assistance first time round, so it is no surprise if he gets it this time too.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51582025
US lawmakers are accusing Russia of assisting the White House clown to win this year's presidential election. It appears Trump needed his buddy Putin's assistance first time round, so it is no surprise if he gets it this time too.
Of course they want him to win. He’s done more damage to the USA in three years than the USSR did in 45 years.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51582025
US lawmakers are accusing Russia of assisting the White House clown to win this year's presidential election. It appears Trump needed his buddy Putin's assistance first time round, so it is no surprise if he gets it this time too.
Yes, getting Trump in as president by helping Sanders win the Democrat race. Brilliant. Putin seems to be the only player in this who knows what he is doing.
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Yes, getting Trump in as president by helping Sanders win the Democrat race. Brilliant. Putin seems to be the only player in this who knows what he is doing.
You could be right, Sanders is way too old to be president, especially as he has health issues too.
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You could be right, Sanders is way too old to be president, especially as he has health issues too.
If Bill Clinton were able to enter the race, he would the youngest man in the running now. Bloomberg, Sanders and Biden all older
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51700771
It is a shame Pete Buttigieg felt he had to retire from the fray. But I suppose as a gay man he didn't stand much chance of becoming president in a country where unpleasant anti-gay bigotry is rife.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51700771
It is a shame Pete Buttigieg felt he had to retire from the fray. But I suppose as a gay man he didn't stand much chance of becoming president in a country where unpleasant anti-gay bigotry is rife.
Is it any more 'rife' in the U.S than here? I think there were lots of other issues with Buttigieg, around experience, background, actions while Mayor.
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Is it any more 'rife' in the U.S than here? I think there were lots of other issues with Buttigieg, around experience, background, actions while Mayor.
I think it is more of a problem in the US, given half a chance Trump would make homosexual relationships illegal. Having said that of course there are a lot of anti-gay freaks here in the UK, especially among extremist theists. But gays don't seem to fare quite so badly in the UK as they do in the US.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51700771
It is a shame Pete Buttigieg felt he had to retire from the fray. But I suppose as a gay man he didn't stand much chance of becoming president in a country where unpleasant anti-gay bigotry is rife.
First I've heard of ths. Pity, but I'm rooting for Bernie.
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And Klobuchar goes and endorses Biden, along with Buttigieg doing the same.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51716348
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If Bill Clinton were able to enter the race, he would the youngest man in the running now. Bloomberg, Sanders and Biden all older
I read on Facebook, but haven't checked if it's true, that Trump was the oldest-ever President on election, but is now the youngest candidate. That is not good. Much as I love Bernie, he's rather old.
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Sanders is 80 next year and had a recent heart attack. Due to his advanced years and a dicky ticker he might not survive the stress of an election campaign, which is likely to get very nasty indeed if he is the one taking on Trump.
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I read on Facebook, but haven't checked if it's true, that Trump was the oldest-ever President on election, but is now the youngest candidate. That is not good. Much as I love Bernie, he's rather old.
Trump was the oldest President elected for his first term. Reagan's second term - Reagan was older. With Warren and Gabbard still in theory in the election he's not as yet guaranteed to be the youngest candidate. All of Sanders, Bloomberg, and Biden would be older than Reagan when he finished his second term if elected.
Sanders and Bloomberg would be older than Trump would be at the end of a second term if elected this time.
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I think it is more of a problem in the US, given half a chance Trump would make homosexual relationships illegal. Having said that of course there are a lot of anti-gay freaks here in the UK, especially among extremist theists. But gays don't seem to fare quite so badly in the UK as they do in the US.
It is very difficult to make direct comparisons between the UK and the USA because imo we express ourselves in totally different ways. So (and I am speaking in generalities here) Americans are much more upfront.
For example last year I had some American friends over, one of whom is gay (although happily married to a woman, another story for another thread perhaps) and we went to Chester for a break where one evening he got quite merry and in the hotel bar told us about his experiences growing up gay in New York and being around at the time of Stonewall. He did this very loudly and uncompromisingly to my ears. I would suggest most gay people in the UK would be more circumspect about how they talk in public.
So in the US a forthright exposition of views is I think much more likely to create a similar forthright reaction in anyone opposed to you.
In addition we make the mistake of thinking of the US as one country. In many ways it is not and attitudes vary greatly between different states, and indeed between different areas within individual states.
Also I think it is a mistake to think that the "metropolitan" view of sexuality is widely accepted in the UK. Doncaster (other options are available) is another country compared to London.
In short, the British, most of the time, hide their prejudices behind a veneer of civility.
The Americans don't bother with the veneer.
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It is very difficult to make direct comparisons between the UK and the USA because imo we express ourselves in totally different ways. So (and I am speaking in generalities here) Americans are much more upfront.
For example last year I had some American friends over, one of whom is gay (although happily married to a woman, another story for another thread perhaps) and we went to Chester for a break where one evening he got quite merry and in the hotel bar told us about his experiences growing up gay in New York and being around at the time of Stonewall. He did this very loudly and uncompromisingly to my ears. I would suggest most gay people in the UK would be more circumspect about how they talk in public.
So in the US a forthright exposition of views is I think much more likely to create a similar forthright reaction in anyone opposed to you.
In addition we make the mistake of thinking of the US as one country. In many ways it is not and attitudes vary greatly between different states, and indeed between different areas within individual states.
Also I think it is a mistake to think that the "metropolitan" view of sexuality is widely accepted in the UK. Doncaster (other options are available) is another country compared to London.
In short, the British, most of the time, hide their prejudices behind a veneer of civility.
The Americans don't bother with the veneer.
Agree with this - and would like to add there is no indication that Trump would like to make homosexuality illegal.
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Super Tuesday for Biden. Sanders still in it but I don't think he's likely to make it.
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I think it is more of a problem in the US, given half a chance Trump would make homosexual relationships illegal.
You have no evidence for that. Having said that of course there are a lot of anti-gay freaks here in the UK, especially among extremist theists.
You have no evidence for the "especially", either. Many Christians are opposed to active gay relationships, but the really nasty bigotry comes from the political hard right - UKIP, BNP, etc. - not from the religious.
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You have no evidence for that.You have no evidence for the "especially", either. Many Christians are opposed to active gay relationships, but the really nasty bigotry comes from the political hard right - UKIP, BNP, etc. - not from the religious.
Trump supports the hard right, he and the nasty Farage have a good relationship.
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Bloomberg out, and supporting Biden.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51742481
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Bloomberg out, and supporting Biden.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51742481
Bloomberg didn't stand much of a chance of getting nominated.
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All the candidates liok like they've got one foot in the grave.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51700771
It is a shame Pete Buttigieg felt he had to retire from the fray. But I suppose as a gay man he didn't stand much chance of becoming president in a country where unpleasant anti-gay bigotry is rife.
You can't generalise about the USA, it's so vast & made up of states which each have their own culture. If you went to New York you wouldn't find much anti-gay bigotry &same in other states.
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All the candidates liok like they've got one foot in the grave.
Especially Sanders.
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Bloomberg out, and supporting Biden.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51742481
Endorsing Biden, but will he put his money behind him or behind the Democrats if Sanders is nominated?
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Endorsing Biden, but will he put his money behind him or behind the Democrats if Sanders is nominated?
I doubt he will if Sanders was the nominee. With Biden - difficult to tell - it seems like an extraordinary amount to have spent in such a short time, in a comparatively small election. I doubt that he would see Biden as worth that amount of investment.
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Biden appears to be well ahead of Sanders now, and there is a suggestion that Sanders will throw in the towel.
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Biden appears to be well ahead of Sanders now, and there is a suggestion that Sanders will throw in the towel.
Can't see that he will do much good continuing and in the current situation it all seems like a bit of a sideshow
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Can't see that he will do much good continuing and in the current situation it all seems like a bit of a sideshow
Agree with you and LR. Sanders is almost certainly finished. The problem is that he is not really a Democrat and he has only ever used the party when he thought it advantaged him. He shouldn't really have been in this contest (and neither should Biden tbh) but he'll probably carry on through bloody mindedness.
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Sanders has ceded the race to Biden.
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Sanders has ceded the race to Biden.
I thought that would happen. Biden hasn't much chance of kicking Trump of the White House, they need someone much younger and full of charisma.
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I thought that would happen. Biden hasn't much chance of kicking Trump of the White House, they need someone much younger and full of charisma.
In a rational world, a house plant would beat Trump. Of course, in a rational world, Trump would not be president.
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Many Christians are opposed to active gay relationships, but the really nasty bigotry comes from the political hard right - UKIP, BNP, etc. - not from the religious.
The Catholics are pretty total in their anti-gay stance.
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The Catholics are pretty total in their anti-gay stance.
Did you read the post you responded to because I don't see any indication of it?
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The Catholics are pretty total in their anti-gay stance.
The official Catholic doctrine is, but many cathlic lay people are much more tolerant, and take the official line on all sorts of things with several large pinches of salt. Anyway, while the official line opposes active gay relationships, and says that the only alternatives are sex within heterosexual marriage or celibacy, they don't condemn people for having a homosexual orientation. That kind of nastiness, as I said, comes from the political hard right, and perhapds from sone fringe religious groups of the swivel-eyed persuasion.
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In a rational world, a house plant would beat Trump. Of course, in a rational world, Trump would not be president.
Very true, the US wasn't being rational when they voted for that lunatic Trump! :o
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The official Catholic doctrine ... says that the only alternatives are sex within heterosexual marriage or celibacy ...
Not celibacy but chastity.
The official Catholic doctrinal view is that celibacy means not married not abstaining from sexual activity. Such abstinence is chastitiy.
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Very true, the US wasn't being rational when they voted for that lunatic Trump! :o
As has been stated before. "They" - by which you clearly mean the American people - did NOT vote for Donald Trump. The popular vote supported Mrs Clinton with a majority of nearly 3 million votes. Trump was put into power by by a historical abnormality called the Electoral College.
In reality the so-called Presidential Election is little more than a popularity poll.
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The Catholics are pretty total in their anti-gay stance.
Depends what you mean by 'The Catholics'.
It is certainly true that the official line of the Catholic church is appallingly homophobic in its doctrine.
However I don't think that is necessarily true of rank and file catholics - I seem to remember a fairly recent social attitudes survey that indicated that catholics were no more likely to be against same sex relationships as the general public, and rather more liberal than many other religious groups.
The issue here isn't that catholics are out of line with the social attitudes of society generally, but that the RCC itself is out of line with its own membership on social attitudes.
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Depends what you mean by 'The Catholics'.
It is certainly true that the official line of the Catholic church is appallingly homophobic in its doctrine.
However I don't think that is necessarily true of rank and file catholics - I seem to remember a fairly recent social attitudes survey that indicated that catholics were no more likely to be against same sex relationships as the general public, and rather more liberal than many other religious groups.
The issue here isn't that catholics are out of line with the social attitudes of society generally, but that the RCC itself is out of line with its own membership on social attitudes.
An eloquent condemnation of an organisation that has outlived its usefulness by several hundred years.
Yes, I am personally biased - after all it was the Catholic Church which gave history the Burning Times. Fortunately England being Ptotestant avoided this horror! As did America as, at the time, it didn't exist as a country!
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An eloquent condemnation of an organisation that has outlived its usefulness by several hundred years.
Yes, I am personally biased - after all it was the Catholic Church which gave history the Burning Times. Fortunately England being Ptotestant avoided this horror!
No it didn’t. After Henry VIII got uppity with the Pope, things got pretty nasty here for a while for both Catholics and Protestants depending on who the monarch was.
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Sanders endorses Biden
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/13/bernie-sanders-endorses-joe-biden-for-president.html?fbclid=IwAR0zoIUTicgNw6KRDulztgxt78ua7oq2BwBnCKAs31mYH0NxqRgwrdEATus
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I was surprised to see Sanders endorse Biden. But, these are very trying times where such an unlikely unification is much less painful than the alternative.
My next hope is on the VP Biden picks. Also, a NYTimes OpEd suggested the best thing Biden could do is to announce early on just how he would choose every candidate who dropped out a cabinet position if he is elected. It's the only way to take the sting out of him being our only Democratic hopeful.
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I was surprised to see Sanders endorse Biden. But, these are very trying times where such an unlikely unification is much less painful than the alternative.
Sanders recognises that, given he will not be the Democrat candidate, Trump must still be stopped. Getting behind Biden is the only way.
My next hope is on the VP Biden picks. Also, a NYTimes OpEd suggested the best thing Biden could do is to announce early on just how he would choose every candidate who dropped out a cabinet position if he is elected. It's the only way to take the sting out of him being our only Democratic hopeful.
I don't know. Samantha Bee made a good argument that they should either stay in the Senate or run for the Senate. If the next president is Now Biden but the Senate remains under the control of Moscow Mitch, nothing will get done. In particular, you might find Biden can't get supreme court judges confirmed.
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Sanders recognises that, given he will not be the Democrat candidate, Trump must still be stopped. Getting behind Biden is the only way.
Yes, and now we have the Reade allegations. I believe her, btw. I've read so many articles that argue why she can't be telling the truth, but few have come up with reasons that were not also used to discredit Blasey-Ford's allegations against Kavanaugh. I believe her, and I hope Biden selects an excellent VP, because we know the GOP will go after Biden, and they might win (unless the Democrats pull a GOP and not allow people to testify.)
I don't know. Samantha Bee made a good argument that they should either stay in the Senate or run for the Senate. If the next president is Now Biden but the Senate remains under the control of Moscow Mitch, nothing will get done. In particular, you might find Biden can't get supreme court judges confirmed.
Yes, that is a good argument. Next to the president, Congress has the most power to impact lives.
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Too cavalier!!!
https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-joe-biden-black-voters-20200522-bviuwfyfazdirnqwmpkghx7ibe-story.html
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Too cavalier!!!
https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-joe-biden-black-voters-20200522-bviuwfyfazdirnqwmpkghx7ibe-story.html
It was a stupid remark to make!
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LOts of tweets overnight from Trump saying that postal ballots will be manipulated - I think there will be a numbers of speeches over the campaign setting up how corrupt the system is - as he did last time. Can see almost any result against him going to the Supremes
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Twitter isn't happy about Trump's tweets on postal ballots.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52815552
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Can see almost any result against him going to the Supremes
Stop in the name of love? I'm living in shame? Nothing but heartaches?
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Stop in the name of love? I'm living in shame? Nothing but heartaches?
Where did our vote go?
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Where did our vote go?
My question is, if Trump decides to take action against Twitter how will such action affect people outside the US of A?
How many of his, 80 million is it, followers are not US residents and more importantly, non-US citizens.
The kind of interference that he could probably muster would almost certainly, I would think, affect the vast majority of Titter posters completely regardless of geographical loction.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52815872
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52815872
Feck!
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52815872
It'll end up being nothing. He's misconstruing the first amendment of the Constitution. Contained therein is the right of people to peacefully petition the government. Trump's executive order attempts to turn that around, giving the government the right to squelch protest (in this case Twitter publicly fact checking him.) It'll never hold up in the courts.
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It'll end up being nothing. He's misconstruing the first amendment of the Constitution. Contained therein is the right of people to peacefully petition the government. Trump's executive order attempts to turn that around, giving the government the right to squelch protest (in this case Twitter publicly fact checking him.) It'll never hold up in the courts.
Which isn't really his aim. I doubt it's even aimed at getting that far. It's just tactics to allow him another enemy another part of the swamp.
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I've always been amazed at how creaky the US voting system is, looks like it's not getting any better
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52984537
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The possible running mates for Biden.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53088353
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The possible running mates for Biden.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53088353
He's biden his time before naming one.
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Which isn't really his aim. I doubt it's even aimed at getting that far. It's just tactics to allow him another enemy another part of the swamp.
Ugh! Yes. You are so sadly right. I'm dying for him to be the end of all this. Dying.
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He's biden his time before naming one.
;D
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Stop in the name of love? I'm living in shame? Nothing but heartaches?
A serious matter therefore Reflections most appropriate.
Ugh! Yes. You are so sadly right. I'm dying for him to be the end of all this. Dying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07NZ5a9x5to
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Thank you for that Robbie.
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Trump continues to set up the idea that if he loses it will be all because of corruption
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/23/politics/donald-trump-mail-voter-fraud-most-corrupt-election/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3o2PtSjToYum5I9AYm0E00qLaR4IA58QBMcQwRx0RVoRMWFaQy_RymZgw
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Trump continues to set up the idea that if he loses it will be all because of corruption
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/23/politics/donald-trump-mail-voter-fraud-most-corrupt-election/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3o2PtSjToYum5I9AYm0E00qLaR4IA58QBMcQwRx0RVoRMWFaQy_RymZgw
He shouldn't have too much to worry about if it is the most corrupt election ever. Almost all ballot corruption is done by the Republicans.
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Trump is the most corrupt president in US history. >:(
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Trump continues to set up the idea that if he loses it will be all because of corruption
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/23/politics/donald-trump-mail-voter-fraud-most-corrupt-election/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3o2PtSjToYum5I9AYm0E00qLaR4IA58QBMcQwRx0RVoRMWFaQy_RymZgw
Yes. Usually, that rhetoric--promoted also ad nauseam by FOX and the conservative media--works well. The problem Trump is facing now is all the polls show Biden ahead of Trump by sixteen points now. Even FOX reported Trump below Biden by fourteen, as if the shaved two points would make it a little less painful for Trump. (He was reportedly furious with FOX for broadcasting that.) I've only recently gone back on Twitter and have followed Trump so I can see his tweets for myself. It's almost painful to watch, but he's sounding more desperate, and his heart count is noticeably diminishing. For now.
Littleroses, agree! >:(
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Trump is the most corrupt president in US history. >:(
I don't know if that is literally true. There have been some pretty corrupt presidents in the past (flower girl would probably have a better idea than me on that) but I think he is more corrupt than Nixon by a wide margin.
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Ladies and Gentlemen of the R & E Forum could we please have your votes for the U S Presidential election
Owlswing - Biden
Result so far = BIDEN - 1 / TRUMP - 0
"OVER TO YOU BOYS and GIRLS"
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I plead the Vth.
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Biden
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Biden
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Biden / (and praying he picks Kamala Harris as his VP)
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Biden
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Holding my nose, Biden - though I think it's a disgusting choice
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Holding my nose, Biden - though I think it's a disgusting choice
I've posted this exact thing many times.
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If a baboon was standing against Trump I would vote for it. ;D
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If a baboon was standing against Trump I would vote for it. ;D
It would get my vote against Biden as well
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I just realised I misread the question. I thought it was asking for predictions, not who you would vote for. I will therefore revise my answer:
Biden, even though he is a poor candidate (although not disgusting). I'd rather have had any of the other candidates except Bernie Sanders (who is, like Biden, too old and too far to the left to be sure of beating Trump).
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I agree Biden isn't much good, but the way things are in the US at present, nobody could be worse than Trump. >:(
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My hope is on his VP pick. On Twitter, I suggested my preference of Kamala Harris, but a few replied that she would much better serve America as either the AG (anyone will be better than Barr!) or in the senate. I'm torn, as they are good points. Another candidate being vetted is our own (Orlando, FL) Val Demmings who was Orange County Sheriff at one time. Her husband is now the mayor. The press beat her up quite a bit, so I worry she will be targeted in the way Obama and Hillary were. But, I admired very much the role she played in the House Impeachment hearings.
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My hope is on his VP pick. On Twitter, I suggested my preference of Kamala Harris, but a few replied that she would much better serve America as either the AG (anyone will be better than Barr!) or in the senate. I'm torn, as they are good points. Another candidate being vetted is our own (Orlando, FL) Val Demmings who was Orange County Sheriff at one time. Her husband is now the mayor. The press beat her up quite a bit, so I worry she will be targeted in the way Obama and Hillary were. But, I admired very much the role she played in the House Impeachment hearings.
I saw a Samantha Bee segment on Youtube last year in which she bemoaned the number of candidates to be the Democratic nominee for president and made a good argument that many of them should, instead, be trying to get into the Senate. We've seen what happens when a president has to deal with a hostile Senate. Obama couldn't even get his nominee for the supreme court confirmed thanks to action by the GOP controlled senate that I consider to be almost criminal. If Biden wins, it probably won't make a huge difference unless the Dems control both houses.
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I saw a Samantha Bee segment on Youtube last year in which she bemoaned the number of candidates to be the Democratic nominee for president and made a good argument that many of them should, instead, be trying to get into the Senate. We've seen what happens when a president has to deal with a hostile Senate. Obama couldn't even get his nominee for the supreme court confirmed thanks to action by the GOP controlled senate that I consider to be almost criminal. If Biden wins, it probably won't make a huge difference unless the Dems control both houses.
Yes, this is key. It does seem as if the average American is catching on, as bit by bit the GOP in the Senate are becoming targets. (Sadly, Kentucky closed down 95% of the voting stations during last week's primary election. I worry this portends things to come as there is a candidate who is gaining popularity who will unseat Mitch McConnell if the people are allowed to vote.)
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Yes, this is key. It does seem as if the average American is catching on, as bit by bit the GOP in the Senate are becoming targets. (Sadly, Kentucky closed down 95% of the voting stations during last week's primary election. I worry this portends things to come as there is a candidate who is gaining popularity who will unseat Mitch McConnell if the people are allowed to vote.)
A neat description of Democracy as it is practised in the U S !
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Ladies and Gentlemen of the R & E Forum could we please have your votes for the U S Presidential election
Owlswing - Biden
Result so far = BIDEN - 1 / TRUMP - 0
"OVER TO YOU BOYS and GIRLS"
Biden, unenthusiastically. If I had a vote, and was voting according to my real beliefs, I'd vote for the Green candidate if there is one, but Biden's the only Trump alternative with any chance. Both the UK and the US need to ditch FPTP voting. For MPs and Senators, t should be single transferable vote, and for Presidents, alternative vote.
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A neat description of Democracy as it is practised in the U S !
They used COVID19 as the excuse, but this is unprecedented (at least the magnitude is.)
The legall way to skew voting results is gerrymandering, where one political party redraws district lines, which tends to favor one party over the other. The GOP redraw lines to minimize the number of people who can vote (esp from poor and black districts.) The Democrats include them back in. The GOP are very good at convincing the American majority that only the Democrats are abusing gerrymandering and in doing so destroying our Democracy. *sigh*
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Good news! (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/donald-trump-swing-state-polls-new-york-times-siena/index.html?utm_content=2020-06-25T17%3A17%3A08&utm_source=fbCNNp&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2eA8I1dyzSEIQEh0MvI-kRj3m6wcPLM6K9YA1hrx_j0AyDcDx0gq4Mw2s)
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It would be very good news if it came to fruition.
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Good news! (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/donald-trump-swing-state-polls-new-york-times-siena/index.html?utm_content=2020-06-25T17%3A17%3A08&utm_source=fbCNNp&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2eA8I1dyzSEIQEh0MvI-kRj3m6wcPLM6K9YA1hrx_j0AyDcDx0gq4Mw2s)
There's no doubt Trump's popularity is waning. His tweets are getting fewer likes too. It will be interesting to see if this latest scandal breaking in the news about Russia paying the Taliban to kill US soldiers hurts him or not. If not, then that would be one indicator that he still has some hope for turning the American public around.
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Kanye West enters the race.
https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/05/kanye-west-declares-he-will-run-for-us-president-in-2020?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
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Kanye West enters the race.
https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/05/kanye-west-declares-he-will-run-for-us-president-in-2020?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
Kanye believe it?
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Kanye West enters the race.
https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/05/kanye-west-declares-he-will-run-for-us-president-in-2020?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
That blows the race wide open.
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Other than the choice of the Supremes, and the bonus of not Trump, wondering quite how much difference a Biden presidency will make.
It seems to rest on 2 things to me. First, the relationship with China, and I can't see a good solution there that supports the rights of those in Hong Kong and the Uighurs without getting locked in a global financial conflict.
Second the ongoing social split in America, where even if Biden is seen to be able to reconcile those currently protesting with some of the centre risks effectively causing a further boost to those on the more outre parts of the right.
Both issues feel like squaring of circles.
Add to that the ongoing discussion of whether he might pick Mitt Romney as his VP.
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Once again, the Dems choose the least inspiring candidate.
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Add to that the ongoing discussion of whether he might pick Mitt Romney as his VP.
If he picks Mitt Romney as VP, he will be handing Trump four more years. There aren't as many people on the left as the left likes to believe, but there are probably enough to swing the election if they don't vote.
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If he picks Mitt Romney as VP, he will be handing Trump four more years. There aren't as many people on the left as the left likes to believe, but there are probably enough to swing the election if they don't vote.
I wonder though if there is a reasonable number of those already not going to be voting. I've certainly seen some of the groups behind Gabbard and Sanders saying they won't vote Biden.
If he could get say 5% of the centre right votes with Romney a d some rhetoric of unity, it would I think make Trump easily defeated. That said he promised a woman VP so it would be easy to spin against.
As a aside there was an election in the States in a fictional TV programme that I was watching and it raised once again in my mind the creaky electoral process where even with low turnouts to my mind they end up with long queues.
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I wonder though if there is a reasonable number of those already not going to be voting. I've certainly seen some of the groups behind Gabbard and Sanders saying they won't vote Biden.
Yes there are, but hopefully not enough.
If he could get say 5% of the centre right votes with Romney a d some rhetoric of unity, it would I think make Trump easily defeated. That said he promised a woman VP so it would be easy to spin against.
I think everybody has already made up their minds about whether they prefer Trump or Biden and you won't be changing any minds. I think that it is more a question of who can mobilise their supporters to actually vote - or in the case of the GOP prevent the Dems from voting.
I don't think Romney would do anything from that point of view except depress the left wing vote.
As a aside there was an election in the States in a fictional TV programme that I was watching and it raised once again in my mind the creaky electoral process where even with low turnouts to my mind they end up with long queues.
Astonishingly, in a lot of states, the polling process is controlled by the political part of the government. Failing to put enough polling stations in the parts of the state where your opponents' voters reside is a common tactic. This is also why gerrymandering is rife in the USA.
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Yes there are, but hopefully not enough.I think everybody has already made up their minds about whether they prefer Trump or Biden and you won't be changing any minds. I think that it is more a question of who can mobilise their supporters to actually vote - or in the case of the GOP prevent the Dems from voting.
I don't think Romney would do anything from that point of view except depress the left wing vote.
Astonishingly, in a lot of states, the polling process is controlled by the political part of the government. Failing to put enough polling stations in the parts of the state where your opponents' voters reside is a common tactic. This is also why gerrymandering is rife in the USA.
Agree that the last para is astonishing but it applies more generally than just corruption. I often wonder though given the problems how US elections can be seen as free and fair.
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But we all know, don't we, that the "elections" are no such thing. The paper-in-ballot-box exercise is little more than a popularity poll. Hilary Clinton was clearly the winner in the nationwide poll.
It is the unrepresentative distortions of the Electoral College which determine the choice of President. jeremyp's provides an example of how political interfering can affect the overall poll results. Local political manipulation can distort the information which is available to the Electoral College.
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American politics - bent as a nine-bob note?
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American politics - bent as a nine-bob note?
Undoubtedly - and what an excellent, vivid, and apposite simile, if I may say so.
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Moderators Note:
A number of posts have been removed as they were off topic.
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Trump calling for delay to election - Oh shit!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53592881
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Trump calling for delay to election - Oh shit!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53592881
What a surprise, I have been predicting that for a while!
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What a surprise, I have been predicting that for a while!
The problem, O Great Seer, though is that this is a nightmare scenario that could lead to the breakdown of govt in the US. It's not that it is a surprise to me, rather that it leads to a feeling of dread about the future. I hope that this is something that Trump manages to row back from else cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of war.
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The problem, O Great Seer, though is that this is a nightmare scenario that could lead to the breakdown of govt in the US. It's not that it is a surprise to me, rather that it leads to a feeling of dread about the future. I hope that this is something that Trump manages to row back from else cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of war.
It could well be that he knows he won't get the delay, but this sets up the scenario where he and some of his Republic allies attempt to use the claim of voter fraud to ignore the results and stay in office - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/27/trump-loses-election-what-happens-possibilities (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/27/trump-loses-election-what-happens-possibilities)
O.
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The problem, O Great Seer, though is that this is a nightmare scenario that could lead to the breakdown of govt in the US. It's not that it is a surprise to me, rather that it leads to a feeling of dread about the future. I hope that this is something that Trump manages to row back from else cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of war.
There could be a civil war in the US if Trump gets away with it. Putin is hoping to put off the Russian presidential election until 2030, his clone, Trump, will probably want to do do the same.
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It could well be that he knows he won't get the delay, but this sets up the scenario where he and some of his Republic allies attempt to use the claim of voter fraud to ignore the results and stay in office - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/27/trump-loses-election-what-happens-possibilities (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/27/trump-loses-election-what-happens-possibilities)
O.
I think that's a far from worst case scenario. It posits a close race and I fear if it's obviously not going to close then Trump will definitely make the attempt to delay the election. I can then see that triggering of a set of protests against that which will link into the ongoing protests. This then leads to the federal troops being sent in but on a topic that will be seen as fundamental. As I noted in another post, I've heard the question asked 'What will the army do?' seriously.
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I think that's a far from worst case scenario. It posits a close race and I fear if it's obviously not going to close then Trump will definitely make the attempt to delay the election.
We won't know for sure how close it's going to be for a little while yet - I can see backstage Republicans seeding this idea now in case it's close, but I think the majority of them would concede if it weren't: at that point Trump comes into his own, I imagine he's not really planning as such yet, he doesn't strike me as the planning type.
I can then see that triggering of a set of protests against that which will link into the ongoing protests. This then leads to the federal troops being sent in but on a topic that will be seen as fundamental. As I noted in another post, I've heard the question asked 'What will the army do?' seriously.
Unfortunately I don't know a huge amount about the American military leadership; I heard reports of a fairly significant Christian Nationalist element to the USAF senior staff by way of complaints about some of their recruitment and training practices, but I don't know how widespread it is within USAF or how far it extends to the other branches.
O.
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I heard reports of a fairly significant Christian Nationalist element to the USAF senior staff by way of complaints about some of their recruitment and training practices, but I don't know how widespread it is within USAF or how far it extends to the other branches.
I think the military will heed the constitution. If Trump loses the election, on January 20th they will stop obeying him.
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I think the military will heed the constitution. If Trump loses the election, on January 20th they will stop obeying him.
I think I recall reading somewhere that, if the apparatus manages to cloud the election such that it's in some way in doubt then in the absence of senior figures in the executive branch responsibility falls upon the Speaker of the House, which puts them in the hands of Mitch McConnell; who knows what that paragon of integrity will choose to do with that little nugget.
O.
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I think the military will heed the constitution. If Trump loses the election, on January 20th they will stop obeying him.
What if he orders them to stop the holding of the election?
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What if he orders them to stop the holding of the election?
I don't believe he has the authority to deploy the military within the US without Congressional approval...?
O.
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I think I recall reading somewhere that, if the apparatus manages to cloud the election such that it's in some way in doubt then in the absence of senior figures in the executive branch responsibility falls upon the Speaker of the House, which puts them in the hands of Mitch McConnell; who knows what that paragon of integrity will choose to do with that little nugget.
O.
The Speaker of the House is Nancy Pelosi.
Edit: However, the House and Senate are also subject to elections on the same day as the presidential election. If the votes for the House representatives are also clouded, it will be interesting, to say the least.
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What if he orders them to stop the holding of the election?
He doesn't have the authority to do that. The elections are run by the individual states so he would be putting troops (or more likely Federal agents in direct conflict with the states).
However, a lot of states are controlled by Republicans. If enough Republican state governments refuse to hold elections on Trump's orders, the Electoral college might be compromised i.e. Biden could win but to with an absolute majority. I've no idea what would happen then.
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The Speaker of the House is Nancy Pelosi.
Edit: However, the House and Senate are also subject to elections on the same day as the presidential election. If the votes for the House representatives are also clouded, it will be interesting, to say the least.
Sorry, I didn't mean Speaker, I meant the Senate Majority Leader... it's one that's reportedly different to most
O.
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Sorry, I didn't mean Speaker, I meant the Senate Majority Leader... it's one that's reportedly different to most
O.
If no candidate receives an absolute majority in the Electoral College, a contingent election is held in the House of Representatives to select the new president.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election
However, all the representatives for each state vote as a bloc meaning that each state has one vote.
The vice president is selected by a vote in the Senate.
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I don't believe he has the authority to deploy the military within the US without Congressional approval...?
O.
and that I think it still might be something he does try is what scares me.
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He doesn't have the authority to do that. The elections are run by the individual states so he would be putting troops (or more likely Federal agents in direct conflict with the states).
However, a lot of states are controlled by Republicans. If enough Republican state governments refuse to hold elections on Trump's orders, the Electoral college might be compromised i.e. Biden could win but to with an absolute majority. I've no idea what would happen then.
Coups happen when people do not have authority but have power.
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The Republicans do not appear to be supporting Trump's "suggestion" that election should be postponed:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53599363
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It is about time the Republican Party cracked down on Trump, he is doing their country no favours whatsoever, imo.
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The Republicans do not appear to be supporting Trump's "suggestion" that election should be postponed:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53599363
The worrying part of the report is below.
'In June, New York allowed voters to vote by post in the Democratic primary poll for the party's presidential candidate. But there have been long delays in counting the ballots and the results are still unknown.
US media report that there are also concerns that many ballots will not be counted because they were not filled in correctly or do not have postmarks on them that show they were sent before voting officially ended.
According to the Washington Post, US Postal Service workers say backlogs may delay delivery of ballots in time for November's election because of cost-cutting measures under the Trump administration.'
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This is quite interesting about how Biden could lose
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/09/election-2020-biden-trump-cancel-culture/
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And ironically Trump gets some ammunition from China via Hong Kong
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-53563090
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Watching Dateline: London and someone mentions one of my fears that Trump might look for a war before the election.
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Watching Dateline: London and someone mentions one of my fears that Trump might look for a war before the election.
Nothing would surprise me where Trump is concerned. >:(
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Nothing would surprise me where Trump is concerned. >:(
There is one thing that he could do that would get my immediate approval and applause - disappear up his own anal orifice in a shower of rose water and orange pips!
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Uptick in Trump's polling - and vast majority of Republicans back his handling of Covid!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53657174
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An uptick in Trump's polling - and the vast majority of Republicans back his handling of COVID!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53657174
The vast majority of Republicans would probably back Trump if the death toll from COVID was 2,500+ per day!
They would almost certainly back him if it were proved that he was a robot controlled by the N R A and the American Nazi Party and promised to declare nuclear war on China the day after his re-inauguration.
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One wonders if the qualification for being a Republican voter is not being all there in the top storey! ::)
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One wonders if the qualification for being a Republican voter is not being all there in the top storey! ::)
Some might say that about people who support the monarchy. In either case it's a lazy 'othering' of people you disagree with.
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Some might say that about people who support the monarchy.
The monarchy is not destroying the country.
In either case it's a lazy 'othering' of people you disagree with.
Yes but Trump's approval rating is 41%. You have to wonder...
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The Republicans had their chance to be rid of Trump earlier this year. I wonder if they would have failed to impeach him if covid had hit first.
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The monarchy is not destroying the country.
That's what they want you to think......
http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1860871_1860876_1861029,00.html
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The monarchy is not destroying the country.
Yes but Trump's approval rating is 41%. You have to wonder...
No, you really don't.
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The Republicans had their chance to be rid of Trump earlier this year. I wonder if they would have failed to impeach him if covid had hit first.
No chance of them impeaching him on the case against him
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No, you really don't.
What's your explanation for the belief of about 40% of Americans that Trump is doing a good job?
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The Republicans had their chance to be rid of Trump earlier this year. I wonder if they would have failed to impeach him if covid had hit first.
He was impeached. What they failed to do was convict him and thus remove him from office.
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What's your explanation for the belief of about 40% of Americans that Trump is doing a good job?
Sorry, not going to indulge you in your lazy 'othering'
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Sorry, not going to indulge you in your lazy 'othering'
To me it looks like you are the one being lazy. These people are clearly wilfully ignorant with respect to the nature of Trump but you are choosing not to confront the issue.
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One wonders if the qualification for being a Republican voter is not being all there in the top storey! ::)
I wouldn't go that far. There are plenty of Republicans who are dismayed by Trump including some in high places. Don't forget he has sacked a couple too. I wonder how those anti-Trump Repubs will vote or if they will abstain.
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There's going to be a lot more of this in the campaign. Biden is gaffe prone
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8602583/Joe-Biden-APOLOGIZES-suggesting-Latino-American-community-diverse-African-Americans.html
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53703294
An extreme religion nutcase, and an ardent supporter of Trump, has had to resign his position as he displayed an indecent photo of himself on-line! >:(
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But it wasn't "indecent". It merely showed his fly unzipped.
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But it wasn't "indecent". It merely showed his fly unzipped.
I'd say that was indecent if done on purpose, Falwell claimed it was 'a bit of fun'. Do most men unzip it for a 'bit of fun'?
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I'd say that was indecent if done on purpose, Falwell claimed it was 'a bit of fun'. Do most men unzip it for a 'bit of fun'?
Do you cover up.the legs of your piano? (And before anyone comments, yes I know that it's apocryphal that the Victorians did this)
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" Do most men unzip it for a 'bit of fun'?"
Is that a rhetorical question?
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But it wasn't "indecent". It merely showed his fly unzipped.
It showed a woman with her shorts unzipped aswell. I wouldn't describe it as indecent though.
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It showed a woman with her shorts unzipped aswell. I wouldn't describe it as indecent though.
Well I would.
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Well I would.
Crikey. You've obviously not been to the outer reaches of the internet then.
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Crikey. You've obviously not been to the outer reaches of the internet then.
Probably not, nor would I wish to do so.
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I'd say that was indecent if done on purpose, Falwell claimed it was 'a bit of fun'. Do most men unzip it for a 'bit of fun'?
It's a bit difficult unless you unzip!
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53703294
An extreme religion nutcase, and an ardent supporter of Trump, has had to resign his position as he displayed an indecent photo of himself on-line! >:(
Can I ask the mods to separate this whole subthread out please. It's got very little to do with the US General Erection.
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Can I ask the mods to separate this whole subthread out please. It's got very little to do with the US General Erection.
Moderator We will have a look but it is easier if you use the report to moderator option for this.
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Moderator We will have a look but it is easier if you use the report to moderator option for this.
Yes, but then I couldn't have posted the joke.
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Yes, but then I couldn't have posted the joke.
Lol. Laughed so hard my pants fell off.
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https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/07/us/allan-lichtman-trump-biden-2020-trnd/index.html
I hope this chap is right in his 2020 presidential election prediction.
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Kamala Harris for Dem VP
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53739323
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Would the anti woman, anti Asian, anti immigrant votes go against Biden? After all, Biden is old and if anything happens to him in office, Kamala will be President!
By himself, Biden is somewhat lackluster. Doesn't look very promising..... :(
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After four years of Donald Trump I would think that being lacklustre is an advantage ...
Have we not reached a stage in our social and cultural development when age is not considered to be a limiting factor for someone who wishes to be active? Donald Trump is 74.
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After four years of Donald Trump I would think that being lacklustre is an advantage ...
Not if it means Trump wins the election.
Have we not reached a stage in our social and cultural development when age is not considered to be a limiting factor for someone who wishes to be active? Donald Trump is 74.
Trump is the incumbent so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt on age grounds, but I think Biden and Sanders are both too old and Warren too, probably. I'd make the limit 70 years old at the commencement of your first term.
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Would the anti woman, anti Asian, anti immigrant votes go against Biden? After all, Biden is old and if anything happens to him in office, Kamala will be President!
By himself, Biden is somewhat lackluster. Doesn't look very promising..... :(
He wasn't getting those votes anyway
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QAnon supporter wins Georgia Republican primary - oh dear!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53747851
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Hmmm
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/donald-trump-usps-post-office-election-funding?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
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QAnon supporter wins Georgia Republican primary - oh dear!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53747851
In some districts, that would be good news: the Republican candidate being an obvious loony would be advantageous for their opponent.
According to FiveThirtyEight (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/), the obvious loony in the Whitehouse has a 28% chance of winning.
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Obama speaks out about Trump's attack on the US postal service
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1236758?__twitter_impression=true
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Obama speaks out about Trump's attack on the US postal service
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1236758?__twitter_impression=true
Trump really is a nasty piece of work. >:(
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Trump really is a nasty piece of work. >:(
I really wonder if it is only residents of the US of A who cannot see that this is a fact and not an anti-Trump conspiracy!
I really do not want to believe that the majority of American voters are not aware of just how corrupt, morally, if, in no other way, Trump and his coterie are.
I also wonder just what has to happen before the pro-Trump blinkers are removed from their eyes and I despair at the kind of damage his re-election might inflict on every other country in the world, especially any the Government of which has the 'nads to publicly criticise the creep!
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I really do not want to believe that the majority of American voters are not aware of just how corrupt, morally, if, in no other way, Trump and his coterie are.
The majority of Americans are aware of that. Nt only did he not get a majority of the votes in the last election, he didn't even get the most votes of any candidate.
I also wonder just what has to happen before the pro-Trump blinkers are removed from their eyes
If he loses in November, I'm pretty sure Trump supporters will become much rarer. Whatever magic spell he has over them will be broken by no longer being a winner.
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Owl:-
I really do not want to believe that the majority of American voters are not aware of just how corrupt, morally, if, in no other way, Trump and his coterie are.
...
They think he is on their side because of his support for some issues e.g. immigration & abortion and so turn a blind eye to other stuff. I don't think that can last forever (hope not), but he talks their langauage at the moment.
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It is more a case of a lot of Americans don't care how corrupt Trump is as long as he is supporting their causes.
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What to look out for at the Dems Convention -I know you will all be glued to it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53585506
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Why Trump is likely to win again!
https://medium.com/@wiredgourmet/why-trump-is-likely-to-win-again-23e56ccff95b
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Why Trump is likely to win again!
https://medium.com/@wiredgourmet/why-trump-is-likely-to-win-again-23e56ccff95b
That's a good analysis of why he won in 2016, but things have changed since then. Four years of Trump hasn't made the lives of blue collar workers in swing states any better. Some of them at least should realise that.
Having said that, I'm pretty sure Trump will win, because of the voter suppression that's going on.
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That's a good analysis of why he won in 2016, but things have changed since then. Four years of Trump hasn't made the lives of blue collar workers in swing states any better. Some of them at least should realise that.
Having sid the, I'm pretty sure Trump will win, because of the voter suppression that's going on.
I think they will just see it as needing more time to drain the swamp - Biden isn't going to win them over.
As for the voter suppression, I fear you are correct
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I think they will just see it as needing more time to drain the swamp - Biden isn't going to win them over.
Fortunately, they don't vote as a bloc. Some of them will still be Trump supporters still. Some will have realised he is a lying orange toad.
Whether enough have seen the light remains to be seen.
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Fortunately, they don't vote as a bloc. Some of them will still be Trump supporters still. Some will have realised he is a lying orange toad.
Whether enough have seen the light remains to be seen.
Oddly enough, the very rise of tech stocks will give Trump a boost
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53745009
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Oddly enough, the very rise of tech stocks will give Trump a boost
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53745009
I have to say that is bizarre in the current economic circumstances. But you are right. Trump has convinced his supporters that the stock market is the economy.
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I have to say that is bizarre in the current economic circumstances. But you are right. Trump has convinced his supporters that the stock market is the economy.
Yeah, I'm not getting it either- I can see why the tech stocks would be doing well but the rest of it should be tanking
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Not the most inspiring speech from Biden but one that did the job
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I have to say that is bizarre in the current economic circumstances. But you are right. Trump has convinced his supporters that the stock market is the economy.
I suppose that in the third-world states, whose support he requires in the Electoral College, both concepts are so remote from everyday life that it doesn't matter that they are not the same thing.
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It's a pity the Carter Center don't actually monitor the US election
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/carter-center-us-election-2020-donald-trump-democracy-a9683011.html
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Don't like this narrowing
https://www.bonus.com/election/
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Don't like this narrowing
https://www.bonus.com/election/
Is there a sane person in the world who does?
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Is there a sane person in the world who does?
Millions.
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Millions.
Surely that would depend on your definition of sane. And it could be they might be almost sane.
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I'm pretty sure now that Trump is going to win in November. I think it is closer than the polls say (Biden by about 8 points) and the shortfall will be made up with voter suppression.
It's too depressing for words.
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Another 4 years of Trump would be one's worst nightmare come true. :o
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Surely that would depend on your definition of sane. And it could be they might be almost sane.
I just don't think that you can dismiss all of those voting for Trump as insane. We're back at the lazy othering of Brexiteers as racists, or those for or against Scottish independence, depending on your side, as traitors.
Also as my nom de plume implies, I am not sanity's biggest fan. I think Putin is extremely sane.
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Another 4 years of Trump would be one's worst nightmare come true. :o
Your nightmares must be quite mild compared to mine.
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Your nightmares must be quite mild compared to mine.
You do know it's a figure of speech, don't you?
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Your nightmares must be quite mild compared to mine.
I don't know what can be more horrifying than a bloke with severe mental health problems, as seems to be the case with Trump, with nuclear weapons at his disposal! :o
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You do know it's a figure of speech, don't you?
Yes, I was just pointing out it doesn't really mean much as LR used it.
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I don't know what can be more horrifying than a bloke with severe mental health problems, as seems to be the case with Trump, with nuclear weapons at his disposal! :o
They aren't 'at his disposal'. Nice to see you using your medical skills to diagnose Trump
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Yes, I was just pointing out it doesn't really mean much as LR used it.
Except it does.
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They aren't 'at his disposal'. Nice to see you using your medical skills to diagnose Trump
He is a psychopath (https://medium.com/@vgwcct/a-duty-to-differentially-diagnose-the-validity-underpinning-the-diagnosis-of-the-president-371354142a02). I think that qualifies as a mental health problem.
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Except it does.
So what does it mean in context? Especially since LR's reply seems to take it as not being a figure of speech.
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They aren't 'at his disposal'. Nice to see you using your medical skills to diagnose Trump
Oh come on anyone with only half a working braincell can see Trump is psychiatrically challenged, even some members of his own family believe that to be true.
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He is a psychopath (https://medium.com/@vgwcct/a-duty-to-differentially-diagnose-the-validity-underpinning-the-diagnosis-of-the-president-371354142a02). I think that qualifies as a mental health problem.
Oh look, a random doctor on the internet who has not examined Trump and who might be biased says he's a psychopath and you present that as a fact.
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Oh come on anyone with only half a working braincell can see Trump is psychiatrically challenged, even some members of his own family believe that to be true.
So in order to make psychiatric diagnoses, you just need half a brain cell. I must tell my psychiatrist friends that they wasted their time doing all that studying.
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Arguing over definitions.
It doesn't matter. He's a thoroughly nasty man who will clearly do almost anything to win the election, including voter suppression as Jeremyp points out. Add that to the multitude of dog whistles already sounded and I despair.
Why? Because what we should all have learnt by now is not that "Love Conquers All". It is Hate that fills that slot. Take a look around the world. Russia, Poland, Israel, Brazil and yes I would include England in that. Hate. Get used to it. Loads more to come.
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Arguing over definitions.
It doesn't matter. He's a thoroughly nasty man who will clearly do almost anything to win the election, including voter suppression as Jeremyp points out. Add that to the multitude of dog whistles already sounded and I despair.
Why? Because what we should all have learnt by now is not that "Love Conquers All". It is Hate that fills that slot. Take a look around the world. Russia, Poland, Israel, Brazil and yes I would include England in that. Hate. Get used to it. Loads more to come.
The problem though is the othering of all Trump's supporters as insane, or throwing out careless ideas of mental problems about Trump, is not just about definitions but is just indulging in that hate. Not everyone who disagrees with me is a mad evil fascist.
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The problem though is the othering of all Trump's supporters as insane, or throwing out careless ideas of mental problems about Trump, is not just about definitions but is just indulging in that hate. Not everyone who disagrees with me is a mad evil fascist.
Oh yes I get that. And they aren't. I think I may have posted here before my partners cousin and her husband are generally lovely people, but they vote for Trump. I think whenever you are judging another country it is all too easy to make sweeping generalisations without knowing how that country operates on a fairly detailed level and understanding the nuances of the society that exists there.
I still think the hatred is going to win, though.
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I watched this and shuddered. I don't think this defines BLM.
https://news.yahoo.com/protesters-surround-woman-dc-restaurant-014323440.html
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Stuff you couldn't make up Part 11538
https://news.yahoo.com/pam-bondi-blasts-joe-biden-020700685.html
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So what does it mean in context? Especially since LR's reply seems to take it as not being a figure of speech.
If you want to discuss the meaning of the idiom "worst nightmare", I would suggest you start a new thread instead of derailing this one.
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If you want to discuss the meaning of the idiom "worst nightmare", I would suggest you start a new thread instead of derailing this one.
Good idea.
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Oh look, a random doctor on the internet who has not examined Trump and who might be biased says he's a psychopath and you present that as a fact.
The article goes into great detail explaining why it's not necessary to examine Trump in person, but you'd know that if you had bothered to read the article.
Suffice it to say it is a psychiatrist and being on the Internet does not make you a charlatan automatically.
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Stuff you couldn't make up Part 11538
https://news.yahoo.com/pam-bondi-blasts-joe-biden-020700685.html
It's all part of the pattern of projection.
You employ your daughter, son and son-in-law: accuse the there side of nepotism.
You are corrupt: accuse the other side of corruption.
You can't string a coherent sentence together: accuse the other side of dementia.
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The article goes into great detail explaining why it's not necessary to examine Trump in person, but you'd know that if you had bothered to read the article.
Suffice it to say it is a psychiatrist and being on the Internet does not make you a charlatan automatically.
I did read the article. I just don't trust it. That doesb't mean I'm saying he's automatically a charlatan - you just made that up.
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If you want to discuss the meaning of the idiom "worst nightmare", I would suggest you start a new thread instead of derailing this one.
It's about a post on this thread. I note you didn't provide any answers to the question.
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It's about a post on this thread. I note you didn't provide any answers to the question.
No, because that would be derailing the thread.
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It's about a post on this thread. I note you didn't provide any answers to the question.
You were just exercising your penchant for pedantry. ::)
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No, because that would be derailing the thread.
Explaining how I am wrong about my interpretation of a post in its use of a term as regards Trump is not a derail.
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You were just exercising your penchant for pedantry. ::)
No. I want to know how jeremyp thinks you were using the term so that the post makes sense in terms of it being afigure of speech as regards Trump.
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Getting back to the topic of the thread, I think most of us agree that Trump getting back in again would be a bad move for his country and the rest of the world.
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Getting back to the topic of the thread, I think most of us agree that Trump getting back in again would be a bad move for his country and the rest of the world.
Yes. I think the biggest issue is international relations with China. I think even with that though i would like to hear much more about what Biden would actually do.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53942667
Trump appears to be very worried about Biden's winning the election as he slags him off all the time in his speeches and on Twitter. The so called, 'American Dream', has been damaged by Trump's presidency. He is more concerned about the American economy, and keeping his pocket well lined, than the US having the highest number of people with the virus. :o
Having said that Biden must make it very clear how he intends to tackle the problems, which now beset his country.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53942667
Trump appears to be very worried about Biden's winning the election as he slags him off all the time in his speeches and on Twitter. The so called, 'American Dream', has been damaged by Trump's presidency. He is more concerned about the American economy, and keeping his pocket well lined, than the US having the highest number of people with the virus. :o
Having said that Biden must make it very clear how he intends to tackle the problems, which now beset his country.
He slags off Biden because that is a tactic that has worked very well for him in the past.
He's not at all concerned about the American economy except insofar as it will affect how people will vote. Trump's only goal is to get back in to power in 2021 because, if he doesn't, he will be open to being prosecuted for multiple crimes.
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He slags off Biden because that is a tactic that has worked very well for him in the past.
He's not at all concerned about the American economy except insofar as it will affect how people will vote. Trump's only goal is to get back in to power in 2021 because, if he doesn't, he will be open to being prosecuted for multiple crimes.
He would be concerned if the economy affected his own stash of cash.
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He would be concerned if the economy affected his own stash of cash.
What makes you think he has got a stash of cash?
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What makes you think he has got a stash of cash?
Bloomberg reckons Trump is worth in the region of $3 billion, which I would say was quite a lot of dosh.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53942667
Trump appears to be very worried about Biden's winning the election as he slags him off all the time in his speeches and on Twitter. The so called, 'American Dream', has been damaged by Trump's presidency. He is more concerned about the American economy, and keeping his pocket well lined, than the US having the highest number of people with the virus. :o
Having said that Biden must make it very clear how he intends to tackle the problems, which now beset his country.
Perhaps Biden should have a slogan 'I'm not here to get rid of the American Dream but to get rid of the American Nightmare .... Trump'.
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Perhaps Biden should have a slogan 'I'm not here to get rid of the American Dream but to get rid of the American Nightmare .... Trump'.
THAT IS BRILLIANT! ;D
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Bloomberg reckons Trump is worth in the region of $3 billion, which I would say was quite a lot of dosh.
There's a body of opinion that says he owes most of that to the Russian Mafia.
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Perhaps Biden should have a slogan 'I'm not here to get rid of the American Dream but to get rid of the American Nightmare .... Trump'.
It would be better without the "Trump" on the end, but it's otherwise brilliant.
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There's a body of opinion that says he owes most of that to the Russian Mafia.
If that is true, maybe they will exact retribution if he doesn't pay up. Poison in his morning cuppa?
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LittleR, he probably employs a 'taster', or maybe Melania fulfils that role.
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LittleR, he probably employs a 'taster', or maybe Melania fulfils that role.
I believe he does. However, maybe they could be persuaded to pretend to taste it!
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Vote twice says Trump
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54011022
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After the sinking of several boats in a Trump supporting flotilla there is now a new slogan:
Poseidon for Biden
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Can you hold elections in 'anarchist jurisdictions'?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1240600?__twitter_impression=true
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And Trump stokes the fire
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54274115
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And the effects of stoking the fire on both sides
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157
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Clever Biden advert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2Iysj5PdLs1omLHmT1pqVLb2QSPqG5LVY5Ss1UXFtni198gXBp_t-Ihjg&v=0q5IpKsOZGM
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Clever Biden advert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2Iysj5PdLs1omLHmT1pqVLb2QSPqG5LVY5Ss1UXFtni198gXBp_t-Ihjg&v=0q5IpKsOZGM
Love it!
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The gay community is taking over the Proud Boys hashtag and I'm finding it very entertaining, both in it's own right as a response, but also because I can picture the right wing group of knuckle draggers with steam coming out of their ears:
https://www.washingtonblade.com/2020/10/04/gay-men-take-over-proudboys-on-twitter/?
PS I particularly like the Wonder Woman collective !
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Latest opinion polls not looking good for Trump
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/rasmussen-donald-trump-poll-hose/32918/
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Latest opinion polls not looking good for Trump
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/rasmussen-donald-trump-poll-hose/32918/
FiveThirtyEight has the Biden lead at 9.5% (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/). That includes the Rasmussen poll but not the CNN poll. The Rasmussen poll is only graded at C+ so it gets a low weighting. On the other hand, the reason why it gets that C+ is that it is consistently Republican biased.
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https://twitter.com/MarkLevineNYC/status/1314013422560915456
New COVID-19 cases in past week:
Vietnam - 5
Taiwan - 9
Yemen - 10
New Zealand - 25
White House - 34
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I had intended to listen to the debate last night but fortunately I forgot and slept through it! However, reading through several pages of comments (on the IS board) written while they were watching was far more interesting!
Did anyone here watch or listen?
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Trump refuses to take part in virtual debate
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54465139
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And Trump says Biden wouldn't last 2 months as President
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-joe-biden-2020-election-fox-interview-b884446.html
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Trump refuses to take part in virtual debate
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54465139
Mr Trump said the move to virtual was to "protect" his rival. Mr Biden's campaign said he would participate.
Quoted for truth: Trump can't be trusted not to infect everybody present with COVID19
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Interesting article on some history on the electoral process
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-11/us-election-voting-changed-by-secret-australian-ballot-history/12726686
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Some details on some of the other of the 1,214 candidates for President other than Biden and Trump
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54334173
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Third world country voting
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/elections/100000007390992/georgia-early-voting-lines-2020-election.html ;D
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A voting story
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1320153269205929985.html
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Third world country voting
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/elections/100000007390992/georgia-early-voting-lines-2020-election.html ;D
And third world publishing technology by the New York Times - video inserts which took over a minute each to download ...
My understanding is that the long queues were the result of voting machines not being sufficiently robust to cope with use. I understand that the machines involved are mechanical rather than electronic. (Recollection of "hanging chads" in Florida resulting in Bush Jnr being "elected".) It is no wonder that many Americans prefer to vote by post.
I have never visited the USA but there are many incidents reported that lead me to suspect that despite appearances otherwise the USA is esentially a third world country.
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Trump was the first Republican to win the White House since 1928 without either Nixon or a member of the Bush family on the ticket
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Third world country voting
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/elections/100000007390992/georgia-early-voting-lines-2020-election.html ;D
The term 'Third world' is today irrelevant since the cold war is over. It can also be seen as derogatory. 'Developing nations' is a more appropriate term.
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The term 'Third world' is today irrelevant since the cold war is over. It can also be seen as derogatory. 'Developing nations' is a more appropriate term.
"Developing nation" is a euphemism. "Poor nation" or "under-developed nation" are more accurate.
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The term 'Third world' is today irrelevant since the cold war is over. It can also be seen as derogatory. 'Developing nations' is a more appropriate term.
"Developing Nations" would seem to me to be just as derogatory as "Third World"; it still indicates that they are not on a par with the "Developed Nations"!
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"Developing nation" is a euphemism. "Poor nation" or "under-developed nation" are more accurate.
If you want to be even more disparaging....then..yes.
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"Developing Nations" would seem to me to be just as derogatory as "Third World"; it still indicates that they are not on a par with the "Developed Nations"!
The concept of a third world is not relevant because the 'first' and 'second' worlds (or blocs) don't exist any more.
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"Developing nation" is a euphemism. "Poor nation" or "underdeveloped nation" are more accurate.
"Poor nations" or "Under-developed nations" are still derogatory, indicating a lower status!
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"Poor nations" or "Under-developed nations" are still derogatory, indicating a lower status!
Yes indeed. And... there are no two discrete levels of development. It is a spectrum with nations falling into different levels of development. Some nations could even be in a state of regressive 'development' or decline.
'Development' is not forever...
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"Poor nations" or "Under-developed nations" are still derogatory, indicating a lower status!
But more accurate. How do you describe a country with a low per capita GNP, and most of the people living in relative poverty, such as Burkina Faso, without being what you would call derogatory?
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But more accurate. How do you describe a country with a low per capita GNP, and most of the people living in relative poverty, such as Burkina Faso, without being what you would call derogatory?
In the way of things today, you can't! Just as there is no way to describe non-whites that is not now considered derogatory.
And that includes 'non-whites'!
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I apologise for the unintended de-rail.
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I apologise for the unintended de-rail.
It is an interesting one though.
We generally talk about the developed world as if it is a "good thing".
And yet, it perpetuates gross inequality across the globe and has a huge responsibility for the relative inaction on the climate crisis. Add to that the support of hideous regimes based solely on the fact that they sit on vast reserves of oil and just how much of a "good thing" is the so-called developed world.
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I apologise for the unintended de-rail.
Let's face it, if you are talking about voting in the U S of A you are tip-toeing through a minefield of what is supposed to happen and what actually happens and what the papers say happened, what Trump says happened and what might happen as a result!
I wouldn't bet on any of the numerous/innumerable possibilities available!
)O(
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10 films on American elections
https://www.bfi.org.uk/lists/10-great-american-election-films?utm_content=bufferd0334&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebookbfi&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR1KMgiU2ufqBeNWNHqSrvuJBvQ6iO09fgBDkWWJ3-2tEXN74ggI0HORMvY
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This is interesting
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/2020-election-night-cheat-sheet/616969/
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Is anyone here going to stay up? I might.
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Is anyone here going to stay up? I might.
Not really worth it given the time differences and the lack of clarity to be gained from exit polls given the early voting. Better to go to bed and get up early - 5am might be good and go from there.
I am not allowed to go to bed because my wife tells me everytime I do there is a bad result.
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I am not allowed to go to bed because my wife tells me everytime I do there is a bad result.
...in the election or in bed?
???
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...in the election or in bed?
???
Previous times, both
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Feck. Feck, feck.
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You walked into that one NS. I've just got up (tho hardly awake yet) but have to get ready to be at work at 8 today so still won't know the result.
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Looks like it will be tight. Surely if Trump wins the US will have their title as the stupidest nation on Earth sealed?
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Biden in the lead so far. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2020/nov/03/us-election-2020-live-results-donald-trump-joe-biden-who-won-presidential-republican-democrat
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Biden in the lead so far. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2020/nov/03/us-election-2020-live-results-donald-trump-joe-biden-who-won-presidential-republican-democrat
On declared states, yes, but looking at the projections it's tight - Biden's purportedly going to pick up more of the late votes in the states that weren't permitted to start counting postal votes early, but there are some large deficits to make up in there with not a lot of votes left to count in some instances. It's too tight to call at this point, but I (hoping for a not-Trump win) have a bad feeling.
The US used to be somewhere to look to; I wonder if that was childish stupidity or if it really has declined that much :(
O.
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On declared states, yes, but looking at the projections it's tight - Biden's purportedly going to pick up more of the late votes in the states that weren't permitted to start counting postal votes early, but there are some large deficits to make up in there with not a lot of votes left to count in some instances. It's too tight to call at this point, but I (hoping for a not-Trump win) have a bad feeling.
The US used to be somewhere to look to; I wonder if that was childish stupidity or if it really has declined that much :(
O.
Yes, I realise that it's still up in the air. Many of the undeclared states look like going for T'rump. However, the only state to have flipped since 2016 so far - Arizona - has gone to Biden.
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I have a bad feeling too. Didn't want another 4 years of inane Trump speeches, but it looks like while people did not appear to want to admit to supporting Trump in pre-election polls, there are a lot of voters who prefer the Republican party in power. One academic (Professor of Mathematics at Princeton) articulates why.
https://www.newsweek.com/why-i-will-vote-trump-opinion-1543803
It seems to be a popular opposition to identity politics and big government?
My American friend (not a Trump supporter) says a lot of Trump voters are worried that Biden will shut the country down because of Covid-19 and they are not prepared to risk that.
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I too have a bad feeling.
Had a full scale row with my partners cousin last night - she lives in Oregon, Democratic state but she is staunchly republican.
Her reason for voting Republican was because of her stance on abortion. I pointed out that she should perhaps concentrate on keeping those already born alive by controlling the pandemic. It didn't go too well after that. :-[
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Trump has a lot of support from ethnic minorities, where his policies on tackling crime seems to resonate. Also the ethnic minorities, whose opinion was sought, seem to not find Trump as racist as white people appear to.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-vote-rising-among-blacks-hispanics-despite-conventional-wisdom-ncna1245787
Going into Election Day in 2020, Trump seems poised to do even better with minority voters. His gains in the polling have been highly consistent and broad-based among Blacks and Hispanics — with male voters and female voters, the young and the old, educated and uneducated. Overall, Trump is polling about 10 percentage points higher with African Americans than he did in 2016, and 14 percentage points higher with Hispanics.
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One thing that will have helped Trump is the rise, still somewhat surprising to me, in the stock markets in the US over the Covid period.
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It's al a bit squeaky bum. Far too tight for my taste.
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Marina Hyde on where we are
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/04/ok-america-so-what-the-hell-happens-now?__twitter_impression=true
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Apparently Biden's vote count now stands as the largest tally ever won by a POTUS candidate.
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Biden is currently 7/2 on to win. At 2am you could have got 4/1 against.
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Yes, I realise that it's still up in the air. Many of the undeclared states look like going for T'rump. However, the only state to have flipped since 2016 so far - Arizona - has gone to Biden.
Now Wisconsin and Nevada showing for Biden, with Michigan coming towards Democrat with every update of the count, but they won't enough - he needs one of North Carolina or Pennsylvania (as Georgia and Alaska seem unlikely at this point)... it's close.
Needless to say, the Democrats look like carrying the popular vote by a considerable margin for the seventh time in the last eight elections - they've lost three of the last seven nonetheless.
O.
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Now Wisconsin and Nevada showing for Biden, with Michigan coming towards Democrat with every update of the count, but they won't enough - he needs one of North Carolina or Pennsylvania (as Georgia and Alaska seem unlikely at this point)... it's close.
Needless to say, the Democrats look like carrying the popular vote by a considerable margin for the seventh time in the last eight elections - they've lost three of the last seven nonetheless.
O.
If Biden wins Wisconsin, Michigan and Nevada (plus Arizona) then he wins, as far as I understand. If that happens he won't need NC, Pennsylvania or Georgia.
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If Biden wins Wisconsin, Michigan and Nevada (plus Arizona) then he wins, as far as I understand. If that happens he won't need NC, Pennsylvania or Georgia.
Could be the case - I've been distracted from the important detail of trying to follow the slow moving election by a combination of unimportant work and an 18 month old who wants my laptop!
O.
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Could be the case - I've been distracted from the important detail of trying to follow the slow moving election by a combination of unimportant work and an 18 month old who wants my laptop!
O.
People seem to have missed that Maine hasn't been called yet, but is one of a handful of states that split EC votes - so Biden likely to win 3 of the 4 colleges votes (as happened for the Dems in 2016). Importantly, Biden has won one of the college votes in Nebraska, so it is 4-1 to Trump - last time Trump won all 5 college votes.
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People seem to have missed that Maine hasn't been called yet, but is one of a handful of states that split EC votes - so Biden likely to win 3 of the 4 colleges votes (as happened for the Dems in 2016). Importantly, Biden has won one of the college votes in Nebraska, so it is 4-1 to Trump - last time Trump won all 5 college votes.
The AP (as reported in the Guardian) have Maine called for Biden in all districts?
Michigan just flipped on their (the Guardian's) count, too, so Biden is showing as having 238 college votes called and is ahead for 32 more which would give him the 270 needed - presuming we don't get any faithless electors...
O.
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This is from a couple of weeks back. Wish I had read it then. Very interesting on polling
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-pollsters-have-changed-since-2016-and-what-still-worries-them-about-2020/?ex_cid=story-facebook&fbclid=IwAR0RGXWadI5WvdgT3axzNvZh-BLWf7hD-ANfSUQrxus-deUvA6RWVM1g70E
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Very tentatively, I clicked on this last page … … I've managed to avoid listening to anything today, but the idea that that ghastly trump might get back in is just too horrible for words.
What about Ohio? Anybody know?
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Very tentatively, I clicked on this last page … … I've managed to avoid listening to anything today, but the idea that that ghastly trump might get back in is just too horrible for words.
What about Ohio? Anybody know?
Trump won it
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Biden has a clear route to 270 electoral votes, via Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan. His lead in the latter two is tiny, so Trump is ranting about fraud, and threatenng the Supreme Court. It could get nasty. There are other routes.
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Trump won it
Thank you for the info. All we can hope for now then is that this is the second time in America where Ohio has got it wrong.
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Biden has a clear route to 270 electoral votes, via Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan. His lead in the latter two is tiny, so Trump is ranting about fraud, and threatenng the Supreme Court. It could get nasty. There are other routes.
In series 7 of The West Wing, the election between Santos and Vinick came down to Nevada.
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It could get nasty
Why so coy?
It will get nasty.
BTW, Good to see you again Wigginhall.
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Is he gone yet?
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/258957047304666733/
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Biden is only six electoral college votes away from victory! Bye-bye, Donald! ;D ;D ;D
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Biden is only six electoral college votes away from victory! Bye-bye, Donald! ;D ;D ;D
watch out for the billion lawyer dollars. And the this is a fraud stuff.
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watch out for the billion lawyer dollars. And the this is a fraud stuff.
I don't doubt that the orange twat will contest it all the way. Anyway, Nevada seems to be heading Joe's way, and it has the six votes he needs.
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I don't doubt that the orange twat will contest it all the way. Anyway, Nevada seems to be heading Joe's way, and it has the six votes he needs.
The main thing Trump needs to leave is a pardon
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Is he gone yet?
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/258957047304666733/
Having gingerly listened to a headline or two during the night, I think I'm just a little bit more optimistic this morning ...
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This is fascinating
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1324071351112491008.html
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This is Trump's spiritual advisor. I could watch this all day.
https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/angels-have-been-dispatched-from-africa-trumps-spiritual-advisor-leads-a-bizarre-prayer-service-for-his-win-3044372.html
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I don't doubt that the orange twat will contest it all the way. Anyway, Nevada seems to be heading Joe's way, and it has the six votes he needs.
Where are you getting this information from. As of now, 538 is reporting that Biden has 253 EC votes.
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Where are you getting this information from. As of now, 538 is reporting that Biden has 253 EC votes.
There are different tallies on different news sites because there are no official results at all yet.
From the Grauniad:
One of the things with a US election is that it is a highly decentralised system, and until the Electoral College actually meets to vote until mid-December, we don’t have an ‘official’ result. In truth, those votes aren’t actually even properly counted until the Senate meets on 6 January. It probably made more sense as a system in the 1800s when news took a lot longer to travel.
It has become tradition that ‘decision desks’ make a call that states have been won by one candidate or the other when enough votes have been counted. States that are too close to call – like Nevada and Georgia are at the moment – are, well, literally too close to call.
The Guardian uses the data collected and analysed by the Associated Press (AP) as the source for when we will call election results. There are a number of other highly reputable election “decision desks” in US media, including NBC, Fox News and others. They may call races earlier or later than AP. That may be why you are seeing slightly different totals on different news outlets for the race.
From the BBC:
If you are seeing different tallies at the top of the live coverage from various news sites, you might well be confused.
This is because some news sites have projected wins in Arizona (meaning an extra 11 electoral college votes) and Wisconsin (10 electoral college votes) for Biden.
The BBC still considers these too early to project.
This year, the BBC gets its data via Reuters, from polling firm Edison Research, who do the field work for the exit polls and work with US networks in the National Election Pool.
In Wisconsin, 99% of the votes have been counted, with the candidates neck and neck.
In Arizona, 85% of votes have been counted, and Biden is leading with 51% of the votes, with Trump on 48%.
The watch word this year is "patience". Stay tuned and we will bring you updates as soon as we have them.
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Where are you getting this information from. As of now, 538 is reporting that Biden has 253 EC votes.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2020/nov/03/us-election-2020-live-results-donald-trump-joe-biden-who-won-presidential-republican-democrat
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This is Trump's spiritual advisor. I could watch this all day.
https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/angels-have-been-dispatched-from-africa-trumps-spiritual-advisor-leads-a-bizarre-prayer-service-for-his-win-3044372.html
It is made perfect by the bloke wandering about paying no attention.
ETA I managed to get the 2 videos on the link running together. Makes the rap even better
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It is made perfect by the bloke wandering about paying no attention.
ETA I managed to get the 2 videos on the link running together. Makes the rap even better
The woman's deranged.
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The woman's deranged.
I would have thought for Trumps 'spiritual' adviser that would be part of the job description
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This would make a good Sesame Street sketch. Biden hires The Count, who loves counting so much that he can't stop until every vote is counted, to the annoyance of Donald Grump!
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No President West, then - he only got 60,000 votes. Kanye believe it?
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Biden has taken the lead in Georgia.
Very likely to win Pennsylvania too once the final mail in voting has been counted.
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Trump's recent outbursts are a cause for worry.
Not least because his followers are unable to see the inherent contradictions in his position.
Stop the count in Pennsylvania, keep counting in Arizona.
The Democrats successfully masterminded rigging the vote to win the presidency, but oops this cunning organisation forgot to rig the Senate vote.
Are these people really so blind as to his lies?
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When the hell will the final results be in? This long after a government-changing general election, the new PM would have moved into No. 10, and named their cabinet!
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When the hell will the final results be in? This long after a government-changing general election, the new PM would have moved into No. 10, and named their cabinet!
True - but this has always been a feature of the US system. Although a new president is elected in early November they never take office until January, the previous incumbent always remains president in that interim period.
And while I understand this seems mighty odd for Brits used to an election and a new PM the following day moving into 10 Downing St I can see some advantages of the US system. First it allows for a more measured and smooth transition phase (well it normally does, I'm not sure this is going to happen this time). But it also has some attractive features for the actual democratic process. In the UK if you need to vote by post you have to do that some days before election day as you vote cannot count if received later that the polls close, regardless of when you posted it. So it there is a major issue that emerges on the eve of a poll that won't be reflected in the postal vote. In the US (in many states, remember each state runs its own poll) as long as your postal ballot is post-marked on election day or before it will count (unless it takes crazy time to arrive), so even if you have a postal vote you can make your decision at the same time and with the same information as if you voted in person.
Now this necessary results in a longer counting process as you need to wait for all these mail in votes to arrive which can be days or even a couple of weeks after the poll. But the fact that the new president doesn't actually take office in January allows this.
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Trump's recent outbursts are a cause for worry.
Not least because his followers are unable to see the inherent contradictions in his position.
Stop the count in Pennsylvania, keep counting in Arizona.
The Democrats successfully masterminded rigging the vote to win the presidency, but oops this cunning organisation forgot to rig the Senate vote.
Are these people really so blind as to his lies?
And his supporters talking about beheadings
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/twitter-bans-a-bannon-account-after-he-says-behead-fauci-and-wray/ar-BB1aKsH4
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When the hell will the final results be in? This long after a government-changing general election, the new PM would have moved into No. 10, and named their cabinet!
My understanding is that this election is not just a popularity vote for one of two men (and one or twoothers who do not stand a chance) but also a ballot for members of the Senate and for state and local politicians. I have seem some tv images of voting papers about half a metre long. One document may be a record of dozens of voting decisions.
The mechanics of counting votes is so complex that the process takes days.
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He's leaving
Said he's going back
To a simpler place and time, oh yes, he is
I'll be with him
On that midnight train to Georgia
I'd rather live in his world
Than live without him in mine.
Gladys Knight.
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I did think I'll wait and see how his presidency went and perhaps in spite of his eccentricities, in the politest way I can describe
he may well in time be seen as successful at running finances of the US and at least he dealt well with the US economy.
After hearing his latest litigious outpourings, it sounds like there's not much hope for him, best write him off to history.
ippy
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Stephen Colbert on Trump's speech
https://www.etonline.com/stephen-colbert-gets-visibly-emotional-over-president-trumps-speech-i-didnt-expect-this-to-break-my
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Stephen Colbert on Trump's speech
https://www.etonline.com/stephen-colbert-gets-visibly-emotional-over-president-trumps-speech-i-didnt-expect-this-to-break-my
This echoes a conversation I had with friends in Connecticut on Wednesday evening. They are totally shaken by what has happened to their country.
I don't think many of us here in cynical UK realise the extent to how it is drummed in to American citizens about their democracy being great and fair with excellent levels of checks and balances.
As Maryann, my fried said, Trump didn't so much drive a coach and horses through that sense they had of their democracy. Rather he blew it up with a nuclear bomb.
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Stephen Colbert on Trump's speech
https://www.etonline.com/stephen-colbert-gets-visibly-emotional-over-president-trumps-speech-i-didnt-expect-this-to-break-my
Thank you for posting that link. Very interesting.
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Fox News telling its staff not to refer to Biden as President-Elect
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fox-news-instructs-anchors-not-to-call-biden-president-elect/ar-BB1aLhIY
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Excellent result
https://www.timeout.com/usa/news/meet-the-newly-elected-mayor-of-rabbit-hash-kentucky-wilbur-the-french-bulldog-110620?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&cid=~worldwide~natsoc~facebook~echobox&fbclid=IwAR0Atmku31mgPy-g_BJgfVyiUEFYxTvPY70MsJxUOZGeMxnC0wm11CYXpZw#Echobox=1604682749
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Excellent result
https://www.timeout.com/usa/news/meet-the-newly-elected-mayor-of-rabbit-hash-kentucky-wilbur-the-french-bulldog-110620?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&cid=~worldwide~natsoc~facebook~echobox&fbclid=IwAR0Atmku31mgPy-g_BJgfVyiUEFYxTvPY70MsJxUOZGeMxnC0wm11CYXpZw#Echobox=1604682749
At last, an elected official who, when he says "Woof!", he MEANS "WOOF!"
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Fuck me - they're STILL stuck on 264/214!
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Kanye West has now conceded
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Kanye West has now conceded
Big of him.
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He's leaving
Said he's going back
To a simpler place and time, oh yes, he is
I'll be with him
On that midnight train to Georgia
I'd rather live in his world
Than live without him in mine.
Gladys Knight.
Go on now, go, walk out the door
Just turn around now
'Cause you're not welcome anymore
Gloria Gaynor
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Big of him.
He's got more class than Trump.
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True - but this has always been a feature of the US system. Although a new president is elected in early November they never take office until January, the previous incumbent always remains president in that interim period.
Indeed. We have to remember that the USA is a big country and it has always taken a long time to gather and count all the ballots. In fact, according to Wikipedia, until 1937, they used to hold inauguration day in March. Don't forget that when the system was set up, the USA covered an area vastly larger than the UK and the fastest means of transport was a horse.
And while I understand this seems mighty odd for Brits used to an election and a new PM the following day moving into 10 Downing St I can see some advantages of the US system. First it allows for a more measured and smooth transition phase (well it normally does, I'm not sure this is going to happen this time). But it also has some attractive features for the actual democratic process. In the UK if you need to vote by post you have to do that some days before election day as you vote cannot count if received later that the polls close, regardless of when you posted it. So it there is a major issue that emerges on the eve of a poll that won't be reflected in the postal vote. In the US (in many states, remember each state runs its own poll) as long as your postal ballot is post-marked on election day or before it will count (unless it takes crazy time to arrive), so even if you have a postal vote you can make your decision at the same time and with the same information as if you voted in person.
The British system was designed - or evolved - in a situation where the relationships between the parties has always been adversarial. The transition is designed to be short and sharp and has the advantage that the outgoing administration that has effectively been fired by the British people doesn't get to continue to govern even though they no longer have a mandate. I think that advantage outweighs the disadvantage that some people voting by post might regret their decision due to events that happen after they post their ballots.
This could never work in the USA because the top level of the civil service is filled with political appointments and they all need to be replaced. That takes time.
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Pennsylvania just been called for Biden.
He is now President elect.
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Pennsylvania just been called for Biden.
He is now President elect.
And Trump is the President Eject.
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Thank fuck for that - about bloody time too!
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The best response to the news. (https://youtu.be/VI6dsMeABpU)
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The best response to the news. (https://youtu.be/VI6dsMeABpU)
Well yes, except of course that this is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.
Mormons overwhelmingly vote Republican.
What's that you say: Spoilsport ;) ;). (https://youtu.be/emdaIJeVoTQ)
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Mormons overwhelmingly vote Republican.
What's that you say: Spoilsport ;) ;). (https://youtu.be/emdaIJeVoTQ)
Don't you mean Morons?
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Excellent.
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The view from Ayrshire
https://www.ayrshiredailynews.co.uk/post/south-ayrshire-golf-club-owner-loses-2020-presidential-election
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This is a must read. Very funny. And why satire can no longer work.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1325088995773132803.html
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Don't you mean Morons?
Please do not judge others as they judge you!
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So, will this be a Biden presidency or a Harris presidency? We will have to wait and see: as Biden is a moderate and Kamala is far left.
Something I found on-line in relation to Trump's claims of fraudulent voting:
The DHS is the agency tasked with the integrity of the US system of voting. This is from the CISA explaining the variety of measures, including watermarks as a state choice: https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mail-in-voting-election-integrity-safeguards_508.pdf
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So, will this be a Biden presidency or a Harris presidency? We will have to wait and see: as Biden is a moderate and Kamala is far left.
...
Far left?
Anyway, Biden should start putting in place a team/structure to lead on the various Democrat policies ... and the party into the 2024/28 elections as required.
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So, will this be a Biden presidency or a Harris presidency? We will have to wait and see: as Biden is a moderate and Kamala is far left.
Something I found on-line in relation to Trump's claims of fraudulent voting:
The DHS is the agency tasked with the integrity of the US system of voting. This is from the CISA explaining the variety of measures, including watermarks as a state choice: https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mail-in-voting-election-integrity-safeguards_508.pdf
Harris is in no sense far left. Why did you refer to Biden by his second name, and Harris by her first?
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So, will this be a Biden presidency or a Harris presidency? We will have to wait and see: as Biden is a moderate and Kamala is far left.
No she isn't.
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So, will this be a Biden presidency or a Harris presidency? We will have to wait and see: as Biden is a moderate and Kamala is far left.
Something I found on-line in relation to Trump's claims of fraudulent voting:
The DHS is the agency tasked with the integrity of the US system of voting. This is from the CISA explaining the variety of measures, including watermarks as a state choice: https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mail-in-voting-election-integrity-safeguards_508.pdf
Depends on the definition of far-left - she is rated as the most liberal senator.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/17/politics/kamala-harris-most-liberal-senator-fact-check/index.html
Kamala's healthcare proposal eventually decided to allow a role for private medical insurance, whereas Bernie Saunders' Medicare for All proposal eliminated private healthcare insurance completely I think. Kamala said she wanted to take the changes brought by Obamacare further so that the cost of insulin or arthritis medication is not a barrier for people to access healthcare, but she seemed to keep changing her mind about whether there was a role for private insurance. She also did not specify exactly how her proposal would be funded
https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-health-care-plan-2020-experts-skeptical-cost-1451633
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/29/politics/kamala-harris-health-care-plan/index.html
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I think Joe Byden said they would reinstate health care but certainly not try to stop private insurance; the latter being virtually impossible to do I should think.
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Depends on the definition of far-left - she is rated as the most liberal senator.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/17/politics/kamala-harris-most-liberal-senator-fact-check/in
.....
Thanks for the link, Gabriella.
Yes, that is where I picked-up the view that Kamala Biden was far-left when Biden first introduced her as his running mate. Must admit, rather lazily, I didn't research further.
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I think Joe Byden said they would reinstate health care but certainly not try to stop private insurance; the latter being virtually impossible to do I should think.
Note that they were only talking about the role of private insurance within the Medicare system, not generally.
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This is a significant step for Trump
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54882647
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Is it known yet about Wisconsin, does anyone know?
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Is it known yet about Wisconsin, does anyone know?
No - not been called. Biden up by 20,000 votes with 99% votes cast
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No - not been called. Biden up by 20,000 votes with 99% votes cast
Thank you for reply.
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This is a significant step for Trump
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54882647
This has had an effect on the betting for who is declared as the next President. Before it 20/1 against, he's now just 10/1
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China congratulating Biden
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54871890
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No she isn't.
I think she's considered 'Far Left' in the US, but given how far right of our centre their centre is, that's not really saying much.
O.
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Following on from the post with Trump's spiritual advisor is this masterpiece from someone called Schmoyoho on youtube. Whoever they are genius!
https://youtu.be/SJGXLoYtzok
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Following on from the post with Trump's spiritual advisor is this masterpiece from someone called Schmoyoho on youtube. Whoever they are genius!
https://youtu.be/SJGXLoYtzok
Well, I listened as far as when he boarded the ship, but it seems like one of those pop star drugs and riches to good life stories. What is the main point of your post, please?
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Well, I listened as far as when he boarded the ship, but it seems like one of those pop star drugs and riches to good life stories. What is the main point of your post, please?
Hmmm....not sure what you were listening to Susandoris.
My apologies as it is quite a visual piece and with sound only you maybe didn't get the full context.
The piece I linked to was a compilation of various Trump acolytes who had been mixed together to produce a musical track using their words or noises. I thought it was amusing. I'm not sure where you got the "pop star drugs and riches" idea from. Maybe you clicked on another video clip?
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Hmmm....not sure what you were listening to Susandoris.
My apologies as it is quite a visual piece and with sound only you maybe didn't get the full context.
The piece I linked to was a compilation of various Trump acolytes who had been mixed together to produce a musical track using their words or noises. I thought it was amusing. I'm not sure where you got the "pop star drugs and riches" idea from. Maybe you clicked on another video clip?
I clicked on the link in your post!! I did Ctrl+W to get back to the post and it worked. Never mind, I've just walked 10 laps up and down the Close in the rain in my waterproof gear - got back in and there was post - in it a cheque from Premium Bonds for Ł25!! That's a total of two x Ł25 since I bought the Ł500 worth about 25 years ago!!
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Well this US election has been like no other in my lifetime! I wonder when Trump will concede?
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Well this US election has been like no other in my lifetime! I wonder when Trump will concede?
Very pleased to see that it's brought you back to the forum!
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Well this US election has been like no other in my lifetime! I wonder when Trump will concede?
He won't concede until the electoral college has voted.
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He won't concede until the electoral college has voted.
One of his (many) former cronies reckons he will decamp to Mar el Lago at Christmas and simply not return.
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Maybe Trump should go and join his best buddy in the Kremlin! ::)
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Maybe Trump should go and join his best buddy in the Kremlin! ::)
I believe he owes Putin a lot of money. Part of me thinks that he might be trying to hang on because of what Putin might do to him otherwise.
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Maybe Novichok is heading its way in Trump's direction.
When this era in world history is being taught to future generations I suspect Trump will not be shown up in a good a light.
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One take on the senate
https://www.vox.com/2020/11/6/21550979/senate-malapportionment-20-million-democrats-republicans-supreme-court?fbclid=IwAR1wNdcR723L1UOm3j5PQ9noUp9ISuNNYkKVvqSOANrS6QYvoWca1prfn5Q
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The whacky world of Rudy Giuliani
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1329472200898994181.html
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Georgia recount still says Biden.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55006188
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I think she's considered 'Far Left' in the US, but given how far right of our centre their centre is, that's not really saying much.
O.
The yanks haven't got a left-wing party of any consequence, by global standards. The Dems and Reps are centre-right and hard-right respectively.
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It was expected that the Georgia election recount wouldn't change the original result.
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Re-runny night in Georgia...
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Biden has fractured his foot whilst playing with his dog! :o No doubt the White House idiot will be crowing about that on Twitter. >:(
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Biden has fractured his foot whilst playing with his dog! :o No doubt the White House idiot will be crowing about that on Twitter. >:(
At least Biden only broke a bone in his foot.
Every time Trump opens his gob, he plants his foot in it.
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At least Biden only broke a bone in his foot.
Every time Trump opens his gob, he plants his foot in it.
True. ::)
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55153918
Trump is apparently inciting violence according to this election official. If that is true things are going from bad to very much worse in the US. :o
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The state of Texas is trying to overturn the results in the swing states in a hope to get it to the Supreme Court source the Independent.
After 3 everybody, the republican right are full of shite, deep in the heart of Texas.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55283024
The US Supreme Court chucked out Trump's latest crazy stunt.
Roll on January 20th.
-
“I don’t have proof that men landed on the moon in 1969, because I wasn’t there,” Rep. Doug LaMalfa (R-Calif.)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-and-his-gop-allies-vow-to-fight-on-after-supreme-court-rejects-legal-challenge-to-overturn-election-results/2020/12/12/904c719c-3c82-11eb-bc68-96af0daae728_story.html#click=https://t.co/M6qIKHPrsT
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The Electoral College is at this moment engaged in its task of voting for the next president of the USA. It will elect Joe Biden.
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The Electoral College is at this moment engaged in its task of voting for the next president of the USA. It will elect Joe Biden.
Be interesting to see Trump's reaction
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It is now official that Biden has won, thank goodness. It is about time their crazy electoral system is sorted out.
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And still it continues
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55517626
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And still it continues
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55517626
Just when you thought you'd seen it all.....
This makes Watergate seem like a minor infringement.
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Now there is phone-call gate: the whole nonsense is beyond satire now, and this episode is no more that brazen corruption.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/03/trump-georgia-raffensperger-call-biden-washington-post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55524838
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The sooner that awful man is out of office the better it will be for his country and the world.
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The sooner that awful man is out of office the better it will be for his country and the world.
Agreed, but short of tranq shooting him how do they expect to get him out of the White House in order to let the Biden's in?
Fred Karno's Circus doesn't come close!
Trump is making American politics and politicians into very sick jokes!
Owlswing
)O(
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Agreed, but short of tranq shooting him how do they expect to get him out of the White House in order to let the Biden's in?
It's simple, at midday on January 20th he ceases to be the president of the United States. At that moment, if he's in the Whitehouse, he is a trespasser on government property. He will be escorted out - forcibly, if necessary.
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According to a report in a Scottish paper today, there has been a request for a high profile military flight (using a code name) from the US landing at Prestwick for the 19th January - which is just up the road from Turnberry hotel/gold course (which Trump owns). The speculation is that Trump will be in Scotland when Biden is inaugurated, which may also contravene Covid restrictions here.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/donald-trump-could-fly-scotland-23254563
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According to a report in a Scottish paper today, there has been a request for a high profile military flight (using a code name) from the US landing at Prestwick for the 19th January - which is just up the road from Turnberry hotel/gold course (which Trump owns). The speculation is that Trump will be in Scotland when Biden is inaugurated, which may also contravene Covid restrictions here.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/donald-trump-could-fly-scotland-23254563
If Trump does land in Scotland, he should not be permitted to get out of the plane and pollute that fair land with his evil presence! >:(
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According to a report in a Scottish paper today, there has been a request for a high profile military flight (using a code name) from the US landing at Prestwick for the 19th January - which is just up the road from Turnberry hotel/gold course (which Trump owns). The speculation is that Trump will be in Scotland when Biden is inaugurated, which may also contravene Covid restrictions here.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/donald-trump-could-fly-scotland-23254563
Since presumably he would be staying as owner, not sure how it could be in breach of covid restrictions. We are still allowing people to fly in.
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Since presumably he would be staying as owner, not sure how it could be in breach of covid restrictions. We are still allowing people to fly in.
The article says that Trump Turnberry is closed under Tier 4 restrictions until 5th Feb but, as you say, since he's the owner that might not matter since he wouldn't be a commercial customer.
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All 10 living former Secretaries of Defense sign letter saying the election is over
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-election-defense-secretaries-public-letter/index.html
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The article says that Trump Turnberry is closed under Tier 4 restrictions until 5th Feb but, as you say, since he's the owner that might not matter since he wouldn't be a commercial customer.
But he'd still have to obey Scottish lockdown rules which means not leaving his "house" except to be extradited for crimes against the US people.
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But he'd still have to obey Scottish lockdown rules which means not leaving his "house" except to be extradited for crimes against the US people.
Though he could still leave and fly to Russia if he had business there.
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Though he could still leave and fly to Russia if he had business there.
Would you fly to the country that is being run by the gangster to whom you owe a lot of money you can't pay back?
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On the subject of rumours of Trump coming to Scotland on 19th January, the BBC live blog notes this.
More from Scotland's first minister.
Commenting on reports that Donald Trump might come to Scotland within the next few weeks, she said non-essential travel was not allowed.
That rule applied to the president as much as anyone else, she added.
Sturgeon said she didn’t have any knowledge of his travel plans but she didn’t view playing golf as an essential reason to travel.
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On the subject of rumours of Trump coming to Scotland on 19th January, the BBC live blog notes this.
More from Scotland's first minister.
Commenting on reports that Donald Trump might come to Scotland within the next few weeks, she said non-essential travel was not allowed.
That rule applied to the president as much as anyone else, she added.
Sturgeon said she didn’t have any knowledge of his travel plans but she didn’t view playing golf as an essential reason to travel.
Which is all well and good but there is no stopping people at the airport - that being a reserved matter
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The dissolution of democracy
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/532786-pa-governor-calls-gop-refusal-to-seat-democrat-a-shameful-power-grab?amp#click=https://t.co/XrTrlv59gY
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It won't make it easy for Biden but it does change the view.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55544056
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Looks like it is descending into chaos - from The Guardian's live blog.
The US Capitol is now on lockdown, with no one allowed to go in or out, as Trump supporters clash with police outside the building.
Hundreds of protesters have attempted to breach the barricades around the Capitol, as lawmakers inside the building move toward certifying Joe Biden’s victory.
.........
It’s important to note that Donald Trump instructed his supporters to march to the Capitol when he addressed rally attendees in Washington this afternoon.
“We’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Ave -- I love Pennsylvania Avenue -- and we’re going to the Capitol,” the president said.
“We’re going to try and give our Republicans -- the weak ones because the strong ones don’t need any of our help -- we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country,” Trump added. “So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.”
and the latest
The pro-Trump protesters have now breached the Capitol and are standing outside the Senate chamber as lawmakers debate a Republican objection to Arizona’s electoral votes.
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Looks like it is descending into chaos - from The Guardian's live blog.
and the latest
Proceedings at the Capitol suspended. Reports tthat protestors have breached thed the building.
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Quite frightening
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It won't make it easy for Biden but it does change the view.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55544056
If nothing else, it gives Biden the opportunity to get his appointees confirmed and Moscow Mitch will no longer be able t block legislation from coming before the Senate.
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Apparently Trump has tweeted condemnation of his own vice-president. Unprecedented doesn't cover it.
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Sounds seriously scary now -again from The Guardian's live blog. Trump sounds deranged (no surprise there).
Trump said, “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”
According to reports, Pence was quickly moved out of the Senate chamber due to concerns about his safety after the Capitol was breached.
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If nothing else, it gives Biden the opportunity to get his appointees confirmed and Moscow Mitch will no longer be able t block legislation from coming before the Senate.
It's a shame that the appointments to the Supremes fell so heavily in Trump's tenure though of course one of those was due to the Reps lack of integrity.
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Curfew imposed - wonder if the certification will be able to continue.
The mayor of DC, Muriel Bowser, has announced a citywide curfew from 6 pm tonight until 6 am tomorrow, after pro-Trump protesters breached the US Capitol.
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Curfew imposed - wonder if the certification will be able to continue.
Armed stand off? Protestors inside the chamber? Shots fired? It won't be certified today.
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Curfew imposed - wonder if the certification will be able to continue.
It's been suspended.
There are protestors inside the Senate. It's absolutely incredible.
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It's been suspended.
There are protestors inside the Senate. It's absolutely incredible.
Watching on the news, and there are continually sentences that I cannot believe I am hearing.
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Again from the Guardian.
The Washington Post is now reporting that the defense department has denied a request from DC officials to deploy the national guard to the US Capitol.
If true, presumably that is a political decision that Trump could overrule.
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Again from the Guardian.
If true, presumably that is a political decision that Trump could overrule.
The Virginia National Guard are going in to DC according to the BBC.
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Again from the Guardian.
If true, presumably that is a political decision that Trump could overrule.
Kayleigh Maceneny has apparently tweeted that the National Guard is on the way, at Trump's order. Take that with a pinch of salt if you like, she's almost as prone to lying as Trump.
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According to this, the governor of Virginia (a Democrat) is sending help.
My team and I are working closely with @MayorBowser, @SpeakerPelosi, and @SenSchumer to respond to the situation in Washington, D.C.
Per the Mayor's request, I am sending members of the Virginia National Guard along with 200 Virginia State Troopers.
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Kayleigh Maceneny has apparently tweeted that the National Guard is on the way, at Trump's order. Take that with a pinch of salt if you like, she's almost as prone to lying as Trump.
Unless he tells them, the protestors to go, then there will be violence. There are so many senior Republicans who have been complicit in this
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No Epiphany in Washington, just a bunch of epic fannies.
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Unless he tells them, the protestors to go, then there will be violence. There are so many senior Republicans who have been complicit in this
Yes you are right. Except that the violence has already started. A woman has been shot and is in critical condition and several Capitol police officers have been injured.
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No Epiphany in Washington, just a bunch of epic fannies.
A great slogan!
If it is the case that Trump has called in the national guard, as has the governor of Virginia (a Democrat), I wonder if there is potential for even more confusion over who has the authority to tidy up this mess.
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Yes you are right. Except that the violence has already started. A woman has been shot and is in critical condition and several Capitol police officers have been injured.
and again, sentences that just seem wrong. A sentence that seems right 'Ted Cruz is a piece of shite'
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And now.
A spokesman for Larry Hogan, the Republican governor of Maryland, said he was also sending National Guard troops and state troopers to Washington amid the violence at the Capitol.
-
Thought that was a pretty good speech from Biden
-
I thought so too: wonder if Trump will do as Biden suggested.
Once the dust has settled on today's events, and when the delayed certification is completed, I wonder how Trump will conduct himself over the next fortnight.
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AP have just announced that the Democrats have won both the Georgia seats.
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I thought so too: wonder if Trump will do as Biden suggested.
Once the dust has settled on today's events, and when the delayed certification is completed, I wonder how Trump will conduct himself over the next fortnight.
Well, he sort of did but then poured oil on the fire.
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The word "impeachment" was mentioned on the BBC News channel.
-
It will be interesting to see, given the events today and the Georgia results, whether the likes of Cruz will now drop their objections so that the certification can be completed quickly, even if behind closed doors, so that even the hard of thinking will realise that Biden will be inaugurated.
I'd imagine the saner elected Republicans will want Trump to just go away and keep quiet for the next two weeks.
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The word "impeachment" was mentioned on the BBC News channel.
On that a congresswoman, Ilhan Omar, has said:
I am drawing up Articles of Impeachment.
Donald J. Trump should be impeached by the House of Representatives & removed from office by the United States Senate.
We can’t allow him to remain in office, it’s a matter of preserving our Republic and we need to fulfill our oath.
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The word "impeachment" was mentioned on the BBC News channel.
Yes; I heard!
And, given the Democrat Majority in both houses....I wouldn't rule it out.
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So the thugs today are great patriots according the dangerous demagogue, Trump.
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Tragic that someone has died during the attempted coup.
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'Someone tell the story,
Someone sing the song.
Every now and then
The country
Goes a little wrong.
Every now and then
A madman's
Bound to come along.
Doesn't stop the story-
Story's pretty strong.
Doesn't change the song...'
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And Trump's twitter account locked for 12 hours
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25th Amendment being discussed!!!
-
One of the saddest things is to watch the people in the video in the link below and see that they seem kind and hopeful.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55568621
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45% of Republicans support what happened last night
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/06/US-capitol-trump-poll?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=snap_US_capitol_poll
-
Biden now formally confirmed, so at least that is settled.
I suppose the question now is whether or not Trump can be quietly sidelined until the 20th or formally removed from office, since given his conduct he must represent a real risk.
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45% of Republicans support what happened last night
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/06/US-capitol-trump-poll?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=snap_US_capitol_poll
How long is it going to take before someone, somehow, manages to gag Trump? As long as he keeps pushing such incidents can only get worse and people are going to continue to be killed.
Can Congress suspend 'carry' licenses for guns?
Owlswing
)O(
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Statement issued on behalf of Trump.
Even though I totally disagree with the outcome of the election, and the facts bear me out, nevertheless there will be an orderly transition on January 20th. I have always said we would continue our fight to ensure that only legal votes were counted. While this represents the end of the greatest first term in presidential history, it’s only the beginning of our fight to Make America Great Again!”
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What are the chances of Trump and his supporters starting a second civil war?
YES, this is a serious question!
Owlswing
)O(
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How long is it going to take before someone, somehow, manages to gag Trump? As long as he keeps pushing such incidents can only get worse and people are going to continue to be killed.
Can Congress suspend 'carry' licenses for guns?
Owlswing
)O(
There are no 'carry' licences in D. C. It's a state matter.
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There are no 'carry' licences in D. C. It's a state matter.
OK
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What are the chances of Trump and his supporters starting a second civil war?
YES, this is a serious question!
Owlswing
)O(
An actual war, no. It's a difficult thing to manage from scratch. But low level continued violence, yes.
-
A majority of the Republicans in the House of Representatives voted to throw out the votes in Arizona!
-
What are the chances of Trump and his supporters starting a second civil war?
YES, this is a serious question!
Owlswing
)O(
Trouble is....it IS a serious question.
The mere fact of the possibility scares the hell out of me.
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Yes; I heard!
And, given the Democrat Majority in both houses....I wouldn't rule it out.
I would. You need a two thirds majority in the Senate to remove the president from office. Not going to happen.
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45% of Republicans support what happened last night
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/06/US-capitol-trump-poll?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=snap_US_capitol_poll
Four years ago, I would have found that shocking but now I find that quite encouraging. Even the majority of Republicans know that what happened last night was wrong.
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I would. You need a two thirds majority in the Senate to remove the president from office. Not going to happen.
Agree, and there is not a current majority for the Dems in the Senate anyway
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Agree, and there is not a current majority for the Dems in the Senate anyway
True. The Dems won't get their 50-50 number until the Georgia elections are certified and the new congress people are seated.
One of the senators who was going to object to the Georgia electoral college result was Kelly Loeffler who already knew she had been beaten in the Georgia senate race (she withdrew her objection after the riots).
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Four years ago, I would have found that shocking but now I find that quite encouraging. Even the majority of Republicans know that what happened last night was wrong.
I find those stats pretty terrifying, that is potentially a lot of people that are convinced the election was stolen.
Generally Trump supporters don't seem the most placid of people.
They need to make an example of Trump, should be in jail.
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I find those stats pretty terrifying, that is potentially a lot of people that are convinced the election was stolen.
Generally Trump supporters don't seem the most placid of people.
They need to make an example of Trump, should be in jail.
Agree, but there was worrying growth in the numbers ov people on both sides who thought violence would be justified if their candidate lost.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157
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It is truly shocking what went on yesterday in the US at the instigation of Trump. :o
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Agree, but there was worrying growth in the numbers ov people on both sides who thought violence would be justified if their candidate lost.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157
Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently. As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully. The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning, and why is Trump convinced he won?
If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.
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Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently. As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully. The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning, and why is Trump convinced he won?
If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.
Trump didn't condemn the violence, he encouraged it with his crazy statements. >:(
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Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently. As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully. The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning, and why is Trump convinced he won?
If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.
His speech in the morning ramped the up. He could have spoken sooner he choose not to. He also said he loved the mob.
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Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently. As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully. The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning, and why is Trump convinced he won?
If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.
I voted Leave but totally support the right of remainers to do what they did, this is not the same.
Why is Trump so convinced he won, he would be, were in not for the US Constitution, the US version of [insert choice of most notorious dictator here].
I've said this on this forum, before the casual demonisation of politicians is very dangerous because when the real demons emerge they can actually thrive!
-
Stephen Colbert
https://youtu.be/JpUxQyLCBbk
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Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently.
When you are president unless you condemn violence in no uncertain terms you, in effect, endorse it.
Listen to his speech to the rally earlier - the language was all about marching up to the capital and fighting. If that isn't endorsing, indeed encouraging, what actually happened then I don't know what is.
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Judas currently trending on Twitter - being used to describe Pence by some Republicans
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As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully.
You were not paying attention.
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When you are president unless you condemn violence in no uncertain terms you, in effect, endorse it.
Listen to his speech to the rally earlier - the language was all about marching up to the capital and fighting. If that isn't endorsing, indeed encouraging, what actually happened then I don't know what is.
I agree with you, Trump encouraged his crazy supporters carry out their evil deeds.
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As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully.
Too little, too late.
And although he told them to go home he did not condemned their actions (quite the reverse he said he loved them) and he further stoked the flames by continuing to claim that the election was stolen from him despite all the evidence to the contrary.
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The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning, and why is Trump convinced he won?
The two are related - the protesters are incensed because they've bought into an unfounded conspiracy theory that Biden is a left-wing lunatic in league with the chinese/russians/iranians (delete as appropriate) who won the election by stuffing ballot boxes with fraudulent votes for him and destroyed legitimate votes for Trump. There is not a shred of evidence that either of these claims has an ounce of truth.
But usually conspiracy theories are promulgated by unhinged cranks on the internet - this is no exception except that the unhinged crank is the president of the USA.
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The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.
Rubbish - Trump was there, Trump addressed them, Trump told them to go to the Capitol and fight ... and guess what, that is exactly what they did.
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If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.
Total red herring. The Brexit Remainers protest was professionally organised and managed with the co-operation of the Metroploitan Police and had peaceful intent. The Washington crowd was a mob.
How about this for a nightmare scenario: Trump disappears and turns up on 20 January at Turnberry golf course claiming British citizenship by descent.
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Total red herring. The Brexit Remainers protest was professionally organised and managed with the co-operation of the Metroploitan Police and had peaceful intent. The Washington crowd was a mob.
How about this for a nightmare scenario: Trump disappears and turns up on 20 January at Turnberry golf course claiming British citizenship by descent.
That would definitely be a nightmare scenario if he get British citizenship, he might decide to stand for Parliament and wish to be come PM! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! ;D
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... the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual.
Yes it is - it is based on a belief that Trump actually won the election, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
There are plenty of protests again governments and policies that people don't like (even if those policies were supported in a democratic process). Plenty of times have there been protest based on a view that person A or party B should have won an election, but I cannot think of other examples (except in countries with a passing acquaintance with democracy) where the protest is based on a belief that they did win.
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Trump suspended from Facebook and Instagram
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/07/donald-trump-twitter-ban-comes-to-end-amid-calls-for-tougher-action?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true
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Trump suspended from Facebook and Instagram
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/07/donald-trump-twitter-ban-comes-to-end-amid-calls-for-tougher-action?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true
Twitter should suspend him until he leaves office too.
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When you are president unless you condemn violence in no uncertain terms you, in effect, endorse it.
Listen to his speech to the rally earlier - the language was all about marching up to the capital and fighting. If that isn't endorsing, indeed encouraging, what actually happened then I don't know what is.
I've looked at clips of previous speeches in which he has encouraged punchups, eg if someone throws egg at him he would like to punch them. Also watched the first 17 minutes of yesterday's speech in which he said the following: "after this we're going to walk down to the capitol and cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women.... not so much for some of them... I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the capitol building, to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard, today we will see whether republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections" (Time=15:30-16:30 minutes, here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X0KIYInLHc))
Feel free to watch the rest of it to see if he changes that instruction. I'm not condoning his tone or refusal to accept the election results, just saying he did not incite yesterday's rioting.
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Rubbish - Trump was there, Trump addressed them, Trump told them to go to the Capitol and fight ... and guess what, that is exactly what they did.
I heard the word "fight" once at a different part of a recent speech - can't recall where - and I think he used it with reference to the Republican politicians being strong instead of weak.
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I heard the word "fight" once at a different part of a recent speech - can't recall where - and I think he used it with reference to the Republican politicians being strong instead of weak.
Well even Trump isn't going to directly say storm the capitol. But that is what he meant. That is what he has been building up to with his rabble rousing speeches. This is what he intended to happen. That you cannot see that is both interesting, disturbing and revealing.
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I've looked at clips of previous speeches in which he has encouraged punchups, eg if someone throws egg at him he would like to punch them. Also watched the first 17 minutes of yesterday's speech in which he said the following: "after this we're going to walk down to the capitol and cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women.... not so much for some of them... I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the capitol building, to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard, today we will see whether republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections" (Time=15:30-16:30 minutes, here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X0KIYInLHc))
Feel free to watch the rest of it to see if he changes that instruction. I'm not condoning his tone or refusal to accept the election results, just saying he did not incite yesterday's rioting.
He didn't condemn their actions. He gave his approval to them. He said they were loved.
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I heard the word "fight" once at a different part of a recent speech - can't recall where - and I think he used it with reference to the Republican politicians being strong instead of weak.
By your defending him, makes you as bad as him!
Anyone who has listened to him since election day has known what was coming if he lost and that is the only thing he has talked about since.
Even he is not that stupid that he doesn't know he lost! Equally, he knows his audience and he knew from the second he started to talk about walking down to the Capitol what was going to happen when the mob got there!
"I'm going to be walking with you all the way!"
Did he walk with them?
Did he bollocks!
He knew full well that the last place he wanted to be was at the Capitol when the mob got there so he could deny any responsibility for what was going to happen!
Owlswing
)O(
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When does Melania resign?
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Thread from the 21st December predicting what happened on the 6th January.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1341016471795843080.html
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By your defending him, makes you as bad as him!.....
Owlswing
)O(
No. I think you can argue there is complicity but not everyone is as bad as Trump if they support him or have supported him.
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No. I think you can argue there is complicity but not everyone is as bad as Trump if they support him or have supported him.
You see it your way, I see it mine!
If you are not condemning him you are supporting him - not only in my eyes but in his!
Owlswing
)O(
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You see it your way, I see it mine!
If you are not condemning him you are supporting him - not only in my eyes but in his!
Owlswing
)O(
That isn't the same thing though. You can be complicit on actions and not be as bad as other people carrying out actions. Spud's very naive take on Trump does not make him as bad as Trump.
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Police officer dead after the insurrection.
I have seen it claimed that one of the deaths of the insuurectionists happened because they managed to taser themselves while trying to steal a painting - not confirmed
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55583264
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That isn't the same thing though. You can be complicit on actions and not be as bad as other people carrying out actions. Spud's very naive take on Trump does not make him as bad as Trump.
This, "very naive", is a very good description of those supporting Trump and accepting his lies.
Especially if you add the word "dangerously"!
Owlswing
)O(
P S - I am ending this particular - re Spud - line, not wishing to earn myself another ban by getting too heated - a very bad habit of mine.
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What are the chances of Trump and his supporters starting a second civil war?
YES, this is a serious question!
Owlswing
)O(
Non-existent. Huge, nationwide, sporadic riots, maybe, but that's not the same thing.
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This, "very naive", is a very good description of those supporting Trump and accepting his lies.
Especially if you add the word "dangerously"!
Owlswing
)O(
P S - I am ending this particular - re Spud - line, not wishing to earn myself another ban by getting too heated - a very bad habit of mine.
Thing is, some of those supporting Trump are just dangerous, and not naive at all, e.g Ted Cruz. We need to be able to judge with more nuance, a word that I sometimes think has been removed from the language, else we end up with everyone being called fascist or similar.
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When does Melania resign?
She ahs every appearance of someone who is resigned.....
Zombie springs to mind.
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She ahs every appearance of someone who is resigned.....
Zombie springs to mind.
i also wonder if we will see a Trump Family Pardon
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Trump has now condemned the rioters! I doubt his position has actually changed, more likely he is concerned that the 25th amendment could be implemented and he is booted out before Jan 20th.
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I suspect that Pence, and senior Republicans, will try and avoid the 25th Amendment like the plague, or support impeachment, for fear of offending those who have been misled by Trump but still cling to his lies - especially if Pence hopes to be in the race for the 2024 nomination.
Ideally, if Trump had a mere smatter of honour, he would resign and let Pence see out the time until the 20th: no chance of that though, so there remains the risk that Trump would do something childishly provocative while he still can.
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Trump has now condemned the rioters! I doubt his position has actually changed, more likely he is concerned that the 25th amendment could be implemented and he is booted out before Jan 20th.
In anyone else, this would be considered hypocrisy of the highest order...
In this case, it's simply Trump being Trump.
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In anyone else, this would be considered hypocrisy of the highest order...
In this case, it's simply Trump being Trump.
To me, this didn't feel that much like Trump being Trump. It felt a bit like he was being held hostage which I think in one sense he is. There was huge reaction against him on the darker bits of the alt right social media where he is being denounced in similar terms to Pence the day before.
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Can a US president run again for office if they are impeached?
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Can a US president run again for office if they are impeached?
Apparently not, if they're found guilty of whatever they were impeached for ("impeached" means "charged", not "convicted".) That's why some people want to impeach him again, even though his presidency has only 12 days left to run.
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Can a US president run again for office if they are impeached?
If they are just impeached, as Trump was already, then yes. The question is more about of they are then convicted in the Senate by a 2/3 majority then they would be removed from office, and then the Senate can vote by simple majority for further punishments which could include being unable to run for office again.
If a President is removed via the 25th Amendment, then they can run again.
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Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently.
I think you are utterly wrong there.
As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully.
It took him a while though, didn't it. Even then, he was calling them beautiful people. He's a piece of shit.
The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning
Because they've been lied to by Trump and his acolytes over the last four years.
and why is Trump convinced he won?
Is he convinced he won? Ever since he lost the election, he's been running a fund raiser to support his legal efforts to get the election overturned. However, the terms and conditions of the fundraiser allow him to use some of the money to pay off the debts of his election campaign. The whole stolen election thing might just be a huge scam.
On the other hand, may be the consequences of losing are so awful for him that he has convinced himself he really won as a way of coping. Much like what the early Christians did when their leader got crucified.
If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.
Trump has been stoking them up to do this for four years.
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I suspect that Pence, and senior Republicans, will try and avoid the 25th Amendment like the plague, or support impeachment, for fear of offending those who have been misled by Trump but still cling to his lies - especially if Pence hopes to be in the race for the 2024 nomination.
Depends, I can see by 2024 that Trump would have been found guilty of a lot of things and hopefully in jail.
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You see it your way, I see it mine!
If you are not condemning him you are supporting him - not only in my eyes but in his!
Owlswing
)O(
That's the same mentality that got us to where we are. It's a false dichotomy. Furthermore, just supporting Trump doesn't make you as bad as Trump.
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If a President is removed via the 25th Amendment, then they can run again.
It remains to be seen, though, whether the Republican Party would be prepared to support his candidature. The GOP's base is actually rather greater than just QAnon and the Proud Boys. And the party itself must be concerned about the wider perception - in the USA and abroad - of its ability to be a disciplined and responsible politicalorganisation. My guess is that the GOP would not countenance Donald Trump having any political role in the furure.
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When does Melania resign?
Her contact probably ays she has to stay married until after trump's term is over if she wants to get any of the money.
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Can a US president run again for office if they are impeached?
Yes. In fact, Trump did.
On the other hand, if the Senate trial finds them guilty, they arecan be barred from public office.
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If a President is removed via the 25th Amendment, then they can run again.
The 25th is designed to be used for any kind of incapacity and so it recognises that the president might get better. If Trump is removed under the 25th, he can reverse the decision simply by writing a letter to Congress to say he is fit for his duties. If that happens, the VP has to write again to Congress and there has to be a vote to remove the president permanently. By that time Trump's term would probably be over anyway.
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Depends, I can see by 2024 that Trump would have been found guilty of a lot of things and hopefully in jail.
That is if he hasn't holed up in Turnberry like the new Assange
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I don't think Trump will go to jail, somehow he will wriggle out of it.
Think how excruciatingly embarrassing it must be to be related to him - or dependent on him in some way.
Roll on end of month.
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If anyone wants to read about impeachment in detail
https://fivebooks.com/best-books/impeachment-michael-j-gerhardt/
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-55586067
Trump is not going to attend Biden's inauguration.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-55586067
Trump is not going to attend Biden's inauguration.
He will be holed up in Turnberry typing 'All work and no play makes Don a dull boy'
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It is just as well Trump isn't going to be at the inauguration as he always likes to be centre of attention. ::)
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He will be holed up in Turnberry typing 'All work and no play makes Don a dull boy'
What are the COVID19 rules in Scotland on golf. I'd imagine that living at Turnberry but not being allowed to go outside and use the golf course would be torture for Trump.
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What are the COVID19 rules in Scotland on golf. I'd imagine that living at Turnberry but not being allowed to go outside and use the golf course would be torture for Trump.
No golf currently but he will still own The Shite Inn
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No golf currently but he will still own The Shite Inn
I assume you are talking about the hotel that goes with the golf course there. As I understand it, it was in financial difficulties before the pandemic. It must be close to complete collapse by now. It would be amusing if it went bankrupt while he was there.
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I assume you are talking about the hotel that goes with the golf course there. As I understand it, it was in financial difficulties before the pandemic. It must be close to complete collapse by now. It would be amusing if it went bankrupt while he was there.
Yep, but then he just gets the axe
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Anyone else worried about the inauguration in 12 days' time? After the recent appalling events, I'm sure the far-right knob-jobs will try something. I'm sure the security will be heavy, but with a big crowd, it'd be impossible to prevent really determined nutters.
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Twitter should suspend him until he leaves office too.
They have done now. And I am a bit uncomfortable with it. The spirit of of the famous quote that Voltaire didn't say haunts this
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Randy Rainbow - Sedition!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR1rD76gHBRCEeKRimjzFRGueH2ApmXosPbNX9fT7y2PFr8tnGTEJ1UgZgk&v=wT5kafhG3Qw&feature=youtu.be
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I assume you are talking about the hotel that goes with the golf course there. As I understand it, it was in financial difficulties before the pandemic. It must be close to complete collapse by now. It would be amusing if it went bankrupt while he was there.
And then, of course, ex-Presidents have a constant and life-long security escort wherever they go, and if that is so, I wonder if the Security team will get so utterly bored with him, they might desert him...
Ah, well, we'll just have to wait and see!
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And then, of course, ex-Presidents have a constant and life-long security escort wherever they go, and if that is so, I wonder if the Security team will get so utterly bored with him, they might desert him...
Ah, well, we'll just have to wait and see!
Whilst Trump might be able to stay at the Turnberry hotel - ssince he owns it, he may have a private suite, there might be problems under the Covid laws in accomodating any security detail.
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I see Twitter has permanently banned Trump, they are concerned about him inciting more violence. He won't be happy about that as Twitter is his main social media site for communicating with the world!
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They have done now. And I am a bit uncomfortable with it. The spirit of of the famous quote that Voltaire didn't say haunts this
The flip-side of the Voltaire non-quote is that no-one is obliged to give anyone a platform. I'm sure he'd be welcome on Parler.
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Bit of good news - I had a letter this morning to invite me to have a vaccination. Local number to call (between Monday to Friday) to book appointment, so I shall be doing this Monday morning!
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The flip-side of the Voltaire non-quote is that no-one is obliged to give anyone a platform. I'm sure he'd be welcome on Parler.
Which is being removed from Google Play, and being restricted by Apple. The problem with the idea of a platform here is social media is not quite the same as a publisher.
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NS,
They have done now. And I am a bit uncomfortable with it. The spirit of of the famous quote that Voltaire didn't say haunts this.
Another famous quote though is Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.'s "falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic", meaning that dangerous and false speech should not be protected. By that standard, the question becomes how dangerous and false the orange narcissist’s words just prior to the riot (and, presumably throughout his term in office too) were. Twitter’s call seems to be that they were indeed sufficiently dangerous and false to justify the ban.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olefVguutfo
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jakswan,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olefVguutfo
God but I miss him. What would have had to say about Trump et al now I wonder?
Thanks for posting the link.
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This is on IMDB as a piece of trivia about Home Alone 2
'As of January 2021, Donald Trump is the only cast member of Home Alone 2 to both attempt a violent overthrow of the American democratic system and get banned from Twitter in the same week.'
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This is on IMDB as a piece of trivia about Home Alone 2
'As of January 2021, Donald Trump is the only cast member of Home Alone 2 to both attempt a violent overthrow of the American democratic system and get banned from Twitter in the same week.'
;D ;D ;D
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NS,
Another famous quote though is Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.'s "falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic", meaning that dangerous and false speech should not be protected. By that standard, the question becomes how dangerous and false the orange narcissist’s words just prior to the riot (and, presumably throughout his term in office too) were. Twitter’s call seems to be that they were indeed sufficiently dangerous and false to justify the ban.
I don't think that you need to be a free speech absolutist though to be uncomfortable about the position of the large social media platforms. If the President of the US can be removed, then anyone can and we cannot assume such platforms will act benignly. I had my twitter account suspended for a week for arguing that a specific biological male should not have been given a prize for women writers. It was 'hate speech'
Social media platforms are protected in the US from having the sane duties as publishers so it puts them in a different position to other media. In part that protection is given due to huge democratisation that social media brings to the area. It gives them great power and all students of Spiderman know what follows.
I think the case of Trump illustrates the great power and the great responsibility they have bit also that that power is not simething I want to see in the control of a private company.
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jakswan,
God but I miss him. What would have had to say about Trump et al now I wonder?
Thanks for posting the link.
Yes a legend.
I have no doubt Hitchens would have had something devastating to offer!
There is a new generation emerging though, you can see many on the YT Channel Modern Day Debate https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_cd4oF2phaIBD3WsU3f7Xg
Warning: Some debates are pretty dire
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The impeachment process is supposed to start tomorrow, if it goes against him I hope he is prosecuted and thrown into prison for a good long time.
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The impeachment process is supposed to start tomorrow, if it goes against him I hope he is prosecuted and thrown into prison for a good long time.
Being impeached and also convicted in the Senate does not mean he would be imprisoned, nor if the Senate did not convict would it mean that a criminal case could not be brought separately after he leaves office.
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The impeachment process is supposed to start tomorrow, if it goes against him I hope he is prosecuted and thrown into prison for a good long time.
That sounds like vindictiveness. He's going to be out of power in a few days, and may be prosecuted and even jailed, but I think most of us are happy to leave that to the American justice system.
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I make no apology whatsoever for my thoughts about that evil piece of the proverbial! >:(
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I didn't think you would.
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Trump incited the riot in which 5 people were killed, including a police officer, he should be held to account.
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That sounds like vindictiveness. He's going to be out of power in a few days, and may be prosecuted and even jailed, but I think most of us are happy to leave that to the American justice system.
I don't think we have any alternative but to leave the matter to the American justice system. That's doesn't meant that we cannot have a view on the outcome we might wish to see.
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I don't think we have any alternative but to leave the matter to the American justice system. That's doesn't meant that we cannot have a view on the outcome we might wish to see.
Obviously, but LR's post nevertheless sounded vindictve.
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NS,
I don't think that you need to be a free speech absolutist though to be uncomfortable about the position of the large social media platforms. If the President of the US can be removed, then anyone can and we cannot assume such platforms will act benignly. I had my twitter account suspended for a week for arguing that a specific biological male should not have been given a prize for women writers. It was 'hate speech'
Social media platforms are protected in the US from having the sane duties as publishers so it puts them in a different position to other media. In part that protection is given due to huge democratisation that social media brings to the area. It gives them great power and all students of Spiderman know what follows.
I think the case of Trump illustrates the great power and the great responsibility they have bit also that that power is not simething I want to see in the control of a private company.
Yes, quis custodiet ipsos custodes? after all. Who are private companies to decide what is and isn’t acceptable speech? I’m not a free speech absolutist either (though I’m close to it), but incitement to violence seems to me to be obviously problematic. The absolutist would say, “let it be said, and let others expose it for what it is”. That was the argument re David Irving – “let him publish and speechify holocaust denial, but in return he must expect to be falsified by the evidence”.
As you say, social media platforms are treated differently from publishers and the technology involved presents different issues too. It’s one thing to publish a book and for someone else to publish another book in response, but when tweets are around the world instantly and people act on them what space is there for falsifying arguments to be made, let alone to have effect?
Oh, and no of course arguing that a specific biological male should not have been given a prize for women writers wasn’t hate speech, and should not have led to a suspension. No-one would (or could) have been killed for you saying it, whereas Trump’s speech likely led to exactly that.
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Obviously, but LR's post nevertheless sounded vindictve.
I think they should make an example of Trump, this is not vindictive, I think it is simply pragmatic.
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Anyone else worried about the inauguration in 12 days' time? After the recent appalling events, I'm sure the far-right knob-jobs will try something. I'm sure the security will be heavy, but with a big crowd, it'd be impossible to prevent really determined nutters.
Everybody is worried about the inauguration. You can bet the security will be a bit tighter for that than for the vote counting.
There won't be a big crowd because the Democrats want to get the pandemic under control.
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I see Twitter has permanently banned Trump, they are concerned about him inciting more violence. He won't be happy about that as Twitter is his main social media site for communicating with the world!
It is a shame they weren't so concerned when he started inciting violence.
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It is a shamed they weren't so concerned when he started inciting violence.
Agreed.
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NS,
Another famous quote though is Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.'s "falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic", meaning that dangerous and false speech should not be protected. By that standard, the question becomes how dangerous and false the orange narcissist’s words just prior to the riot (and, presumably throughout his term in office too) were. Twitter’s call seems to be that they were indeed sufficiently dangerous and false to justify the ban.
And he coined that phrase when he was ruling that First Amendment rights didn't cover people who were protesting against conscription in the First World War. Its very first use shows how problematic the argument is.
That's not to say I disagree with Trump's banning from Twitter. They have finally decided that the rep they get for helping Trump destabilise the country is not worth the dollars that he brings in. I only wish they had decided so sooner.
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Everybody is worried about the inauguration. You can bet the security will be a bit tighter for that than for the vote counting.
There won't be a big crowd because the Democrats want to get the pandemic under control.
That's true - how could I forget the pandemic? If 'twas me organising it, I'd do it indoors, with only the essential people present, and televise it. Wouldn't be surprised if that's what they do.
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Even Trump's golf courses being affected
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/55615022
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Even Trump's golf courses being affected https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/55615022
Behind the times, at least a bit. Didn't the R&A remove Turnberry from potential Open Championships two years ago?
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Historian Tom Holland's view on comparisons with Rome
https://unherd.com/2021/01/is-this-americas-decline-and-fall/
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Behind the times, at least a bit. Didn't the R&A remove Turnberry from potential Open Championships two years ago?
Not openly because of Trump but rather because of capacity issues. I suspect after the fuss with Muirfield last time because of the then male only members policy, they would be reticent to hold it at Turnberry and have found a sensible reason not to do so.
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/golf/1247250/Donald-Trump-R-A-Turnberry-Troon-2023-The-Open
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The flip-side of the Voltaire non-quote is that no-one is obliged to give anyone a platform. I'm sure he'd be welcome on Parler.
Parler pretty much gone
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-55615214
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Good bloody riddance.
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Parler pretty much gone
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-55615214
Good
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From the BBC live feed
'German Chancellor Angela Merkel has expressed concern at the suspension of Donald Trump from several social media platforms, according to her spokesman.
In a statement, Steffen Seibert said the move was "problematic" because freedom of opinion should be determined by legislatures, not tech bosses.
However the chancellor said she was "furious and saddened" by the storming of the US Capitol last week, and accused President Trump of stoking unrest by refusing to concede to Joe Biden.'
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Even Trump's golf courses being affected
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/55615022
Dammit! I was going to post that.
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From the BBC live feed
'German Chancellor Angela Merkel has expressed concern at the suspension of Donald Trump from several social media platforms, according to her spokesman.
In a statement, Steffen Seibert said the move was "problematic" because freedom of opinion should be determined by legislatures, not tech bosses.
However the chancellor said she was "furious and saddened" by the storming of the US Capitol last week, and accused President Trump of stoking unrest by refusing to concede to Joe Biden.'
What about the freedom of tech bosses to say what their platforms will publish?
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What about the freedom of tech bosses to say what their platforms will publish?
They are not publishers in the legal sense. Indeed they have fought very hard to get away from being seen as publishers.
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They are not publishers in the legal sense. Indeed they have fought very hard to get away from being seen as publishers.
They still own the platforms and have the right to say what other people publish on their platforms.
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They still own the platforms and have the right to say what other people publish on their platforms.
As noted further up the thread the democratisation caused by what social media are causes issues for this. If they want to be treated and publishers, than the exemptions that they have should be removed.
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A hero for our times.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55623752
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Still no bets on a Second Civil War?
From the news feeds I have seen it would appear that some are intending armed protests following on from the Capitol insanity!
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Still no bets on a Second Civil War?
From the news feeds I have seen it would appear that some are intending armed protests following on from the Capitol insanity!
Just don't see how they have the structure to create a civil war. Outbreaks of violence, yes, but if you watch the video of the Capitol insurrection, it's not exactly a well drilled militia
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Arnold Schwarzenegger on the insurrection
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck
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Arnold Schwarzenegger on the insurrection
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck
Good for him!
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Just don't see how they have the structure to create a civil war. Outbreaks of violence, yes, but if you watch the video of the Capitol insurrection, it's not exactly a well-drilled militia
Probably a worse scenario as they are totally unpredictable in virtually all respects.
Owlswing
)O(
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Probably a worse scenario as they are totally unpredictable in virtually all respects.
Owlswing
)O(
I saw lots of suggestion that the insurrection would be cathartic and stop people in their tracks. I didn't believe that to be the case, and I think that there is s strong enough indication that for many people that has not been the case but for some it has. I wonder if some more acts of violence might reduce them to a tiny group.
I look at Biden who has been aiming at the Presidency for all of my adult life, and I half feel sorry for him winning it now. What with the need to heal the US, Covid, China, and climate change, it's not an easy four years.
I think though that Schwarzenegger was right in the link I posted that tye institutions are stronger than is often portrayed. In the end other than the Supreme Court, they have not been changed by Trump, and that change would have happened under any Republican and owe more to Mitch McConnel than Trump
ETA I watched the events last week and the starting words from The Story of Booth from Assassins kept running through my head
https://youtu.be/BmVjAMm1ryA
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Here's a "behind the scenes" account in the Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-mob-failure/2021/01/11/36a46e2e-542e-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html
I believe the apposite saying is "fiddling while Rome burns", except Trump wasn't doing anything so creative, he was watching TV.
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I think though that Schwarzenegger was right in the link I posted that tye institutions are stronger than is often portrayed. In the end other than the Supreme Court, they have not been changed by Trump, and that change would have happened under any Republican and owe more to Mitch McConnel than Trump
I was very impressed at how the election institutions have stood up to the onslaught by Trump and the Republicans in spite of their obvious (from out point of view) flaws.
I also don't think that the courts (not just the supreme courts) have been changed as much as people might think. Trump has filed more than sixty law suits against the elections and all but two fairly trivial ones were dismissed pretty much instantly. The one case that reached the apparently loaded Supreme Court was rejected out of hand. They refused to even hear the case. Only two justices dissented from that view, saying they should hear the case but they believed it was almost certainly without merit.
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I was very impressed at how the election institutions have stood up to the onslaught by Trump and the Republicans in spite of their obvious (from out point of view) flaws.
I also don't think that the courts (not just the supreme courts) have been changed as much as people might think. Trump has filed more than sixty law suits against the elections and all but two fairly trivial ones were dismissed pretty much instantly. The one case that reached the apparently loaded Supreme Court was rejected out of hand. They refused to even hear the case. Only two justices dissented from that view, saying they should hear the case but they believed it was almost certainly without merit.
It was always naive of Trump to think that the Supreme Court would come riding to his rescue. Firstly because although their may be a right wing bias now due to recent appointments the Supreme Court members are in the business of making legal judgements not political judgements - hence they'd never simply support a president just because he was of the party they may typically support, or even a president that appointed them.
Moreover, a seat on the Supreme Court is (literally) for life, while a president is just for a few years, maximum 8. No member of the Supreme Court with prostitute their ultimate career and legacy for a simply president. Their reputation would be in tatters and their ability to work with the next president and the one after etc would be severely impeded.
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I knew there was something I was missing, How Biden stole the election reveals all :-
https://howbidenstoletheelection.com/
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I knew there was something I was missing, How Biden stole the election reveals all :-
https://howbidenstoletheelection.com/
;D
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I knew there was something I was missing, How Biden stole the election reveals all :-
https://howbidenstoletheelection.com/
How dare Biden get more votes than Trump!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I knew there was something I was missing, How Biden stole the election reveals all :-
https://howbidenstoletheelection.com/
I think that this misses the point. It's not that Biden received more votes, he received them in the wrong places.
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I knew there was something I was missing, How Biden stole the election reveals all :-
https://howbidenstoletheelection.com/
LOVE IT!
Owlswing
)O(