Patriotism

[Hope]

Everyone of any note considers the Refendum as binding now;  apart from the Remain losers who are finding democracy hard to deal with.

I think the problem that the 'Remain losers', as you call them, have is that the 'Leave victors' don't seem to have the slightest idea what to do.

[L.A.]

I think the problem that the 'Remain losers', as you call them, have is that the 'Leave victors' don't seem to have the slightest idea what to do.

The referendum result means that everyone has lost - the Leave campaigners just don't realise it yet.

[Brownie]

Why?

Several reasons:

Could be construed as offensive, is certainly "having a go" at a poster rather than having a go at what the poster said.
Is too much of a sweeping statement.
Absolutely pointless.

[Aruntraveller]

Several reasons:

Could be construed as offensive, is certainly "having a go" at a poster rather than having a go at what the poster said.
Is too much of a sweeping statement.
Absolutely pointless.

Like so many things patriotism strikes me as being in the eye of the beholder.

Still you can always get it out with Optrex (with thanks to S.Milligan)

[Maeght]

Bash, it isn't right to accuse people of lacking 'patriotism' just because of one issue.

Its just nonsense. If someone thinks that the country is heading in the wrong direction it is surely their 'patriotic duty' to point that out.

[BashfulAnthony]

Several reasons:

Could be construed as offensive, is certainly "having a go" at a poster rather than having a go at what the poster said.
Is too much of a sweeping statement.
Absolutely pointless.

No offence was intended, and I rather doubt the posters on here would be offended:  abuse and foul language don't offend them, why should an observation I made with regard to their attitude to Brexit?  So I was not having a go, I was making a valid point based on my observations of their attitudes. Finally, it's not pointless: it's a point made in debate.

Incidently, you pick me up on what I say, but you don't appear to be taking note of some of the robust comments made to me.

[wigginhall]

Its just nonsense. If someone thinks that the country is heading in the wrong direction it is surely their 'patriotic duty' to point that out.

Yes, it becomes absurd.   I am more patriotic than you - because I say so.

[BashfulAnthony]

The referendum result means that everyone has lost - the Leave campaigners just don't realise it yet.

L.A.,
List the things irretrievably lost.

[BashfulAnthony]

Its just nonsense. If someone thinks that the country is heading in the wrong direction it is surely their 'patriotic duty' to point that out.

They have had that opportunity in the Referendum.  Now that we have voted out, they should stand up for the country and debate the best ways to now deal with the reality of Brexit.

[Maeght]

They have had that opportunity in the Referendum.  Now that we have voted out, they should stand up for the country and debate the best ways to now deal with the reality of Brexit.

There you go again with the phrase 'stand up for the country', whatever that means. If you think the best thing for the country is to stay in then 'standing up for the country' would mean continuing to argue against Brexit wouldn't it. Otherwise it would be just going along with the majority even though you think it is a bad thing - which doesn't sound very patriotic to me.

[Gordon]

They have had that opportunity in the Referendum.  Now that we have voted out, they should stand up for the country and debate the best ways to now deal with the reality of Brexit.

We should indeed stand up for our country, and in our case (Scotland) the best way to deal with Brexit would be by us becoming a separate country.

[BashfulAnthony]

We should indeed stand up for our country, and in our case (Scotland) the best way to deal with Brexit would be by us becoming a separate country.

You well know that if you had won the first, and probably only Referendum, with the catastrophic drop in oil prices, you would be on the verge of bankruptcy now.  Didn't the saintly Salmond burble something about the Referendum being a once in a life-time opportunity?  Anyway,  it's by no means a given that you could easily access the EU.

[Nearly Sane]

You well know that if you had won the first, and probably only Referendum, with the catastrophic drop in oil prices, you would be on the verge of bankruptcy now.  Didn't the saintly Salmond burble something about the Referendum being a once in a life-time opportunity?  Anyway,  it's by no means a given that you could easily access the EU.

But you were posting that the UK was bankrupt only a few days ago, which given that it isn't in terms of what bankrupt means, could be seen  by some as unpatriotic.

[Gordon]

You well know that if you had won the first, and probably only Referendum, with the catastrophic drop in oil prices, you would be on the verge of bankruptcy now.  Didn't the saintly Salmond burble something about the Referendum being a once in a life-time opportunity?  Anyway,  it's by no means a given that you could easily access the EU.

Things have changed, obviously, and of course we were told then that if we wanted to stay in the EU we really should stay in the UK: we have been betrayed, given enough of you guys voted Tory and then voted Leave. 

Hopefully we'll be able to abandon the sinking ship before it finally sinks.

[Hope]

They have had that opportunity in the Referendum.  Now that we have voted out, they should stand up for the country and debate the best ways to now deal with the reality of Brexit.

I think they are doing just that, BA - though the Leaver supporters seem to be the least active in that debate.  All they seem to be concerned about is that others - mostly those who didn't vote to leave - aren't sorting everything out on their behalf.

[Hope]

Things have changed, obviously, and of course we were told then that if we wanted to stay in the EU we really should stay in the UK: we have been betrayed, given enough of you guys voted Tory and then voted Leave. 

Hopefully we'll be able to abandon the sinking ship before it finally sinks.

Sadly, Gordon, the places that voted to leave most were Labour areas.  Ironically, they were the very same places that have benefited most from European monies; i.e. Blaenau Gwent, England's North East, Cornwall.

[Nearly Sane]

Sadly, Gordon, the places that voted to leave most were Labour areas.  Ironically, they were the very same places that have benefited most from European monies; i.e. Blaenau Gwent, England's North East, Cornwall.

Cornwall, that Labour heartland

[wigginhall]

I thought that great swathes of Tory England voted Leave.   For example, the whole of East Anglia voted Leave, except for Norwich.   

[Gordon]

Sadly, Gordon, the places that voted to leave most were Labour areas.  Ironically, they were the very same places that have benefited most from European monies; i.e. Blaenau Gwent, England's North East, Cornwall.

The issue for us Scots though is that the message of us being forced out of the EU if we voted for independence and that if we really wanted to stay in the EU we should stay in the UK influenced the choice that some Scots made - which is a separate issue to the EU referendum result elsewhere in the UK where these areas never had the option we had.

That most Scots wanted to stay in the EU was confirmed by the recent referendum - so we were sold a pup: no question about it.

[Hope]

Cornwall, that Labour heartland

Note that there was a fullstop in the middle of my post, NS.  Therefore, my reference to Cornwall referred to the comment about most benefiting.  I could I suppose have refenced the S. Wales valleys - who all voted to leave and who all return Labour AMs, MPs and MEPs.

[Hope]

I thought that great swathes of Tory England voted Leave.   For example, the whole of East Anglia voted Leave, except for Norwich.   

But if you look at the referendum result maps, the remain votes were highest in Tory strongholds as well.

[Hope]

The issue for us Scots though is that the message of us being forced out of the EU if we voted for independence and that if we really wanted to stay in the EU we should stay in the UK influenced the choice that some Scots made - which is a separate issue to the EU referendum result elsewhere in the UK where these areas never had the option we had.

That most Scots wanted to stay in the EU was confirmed by the recent referendum - so we were sold a pup: no question about it.

I think the problem England and Wales have is that Tory MPs more or less reflect the split in opinion within the Tory Party membership in regard to the EU: Labour's MPs, on the other hand, don't seem to represent their membership's opinions to the same degree.  The same could possibly be said about the pre-2015 General Election Lib Dem party.

[Nearly Sane]

But if you look at the referendum result maps, the remain votes were highest in Tory strongholds as well.

London, Scotland and Northern Ireland?

[Gordon]

I think the problem England and Wales have is that Tory MPs more or less reflect the split in opinion within the Tory Party membership in regard to the EU: Labour's MPs, on the other hand, don't seem to represent their membership's opinions to the same degree.  The same could possibly be said about the pre-2015 General Election Lib Dem party.

Which is very nice but doesn't relate to the fact that the reassurances we were given by the 'Better Together' brigade turned out to be bogus - would you not agree?

Therefore, in my view, BA's view that we should patriotically get behind Brexit is perverse in the extreme.

[Nearly Sane]

Note that there was a fullstop in the middle of my post, NS.  Therefore, my reference to Cornwall referred to the comment about most benefiting.  I could I suppose have refenced the S. Wales valleys - who all voted to leave and who all return Labour AMs, MPs and MEPs.

you mentioned three areas following an I.e.  including Cornwall, see below.
Your comment about the fullstop makes no sense unless none of the areas where to be taken as instances of your claim in which case the entire post is nonsensical.

'Sadly, Gordon, the places that voted to leave most were Labour areas.  Ironically, they were the very same places that have benefited most from European monies; i.e. Blaenau Gwent, England's North East, Cornwall.'