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Literature, Music, Art & Entertainment / Re: Picture This!
« Last post by Nearly Sane on June 20, 2025, 05:21:48 PM ».
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Christian Topic / Re: From Necessary Being to Christian God.
« Last post by Gonnagle on June 20, 2025, 04:33:13 PM »Hello Gonners,
I'm not sure quite what you mean by 'fundamental Atheist', but if it's what I think, I'd agree with the Prof "There certainly aren't any on here." The atheists I find on here are quite able to distinguish between poetic narrative, philosophical meditation and supposed and real history (Yes, the Bible does contain some of that, since the text has been corroborated by archaelogy). The greater part of the Bible's 'history' is probably fabricated though, for reasons I won't go into here.
I take issue with the Prof over the question of Myth, though, since he seems to take the word as simply meaning 'something untrue'. I accept, along with Karen Armstrong, that myth can sometimes impart deeper truths than any literal surface reading. But even this presents problems (perhaps we need a completely new thread on this). Let me take one obvious example: Genesis chapter 1 and the "Creation Days". Biblical literalists take these as being 24 days as per now. Now the style of the chapter is quite poetic, which might lead thinking Christians and atheists to speculate that the original writer never intended the word "Day" to be taken literally.
That's where the problem starts. We can't possibly know for sure what was in the original writer's head at the time. However, scholars have long identified this writer as the same old bore who wrote Leviticus (The Priestly writer), and this chap was absolutely obsessed with precise time intervals, hours, days and years, and much more anally retentive stuff besides. So perhaps he did mean the word "Day" to be taken literally here. He was reputedly of course 'inspired by God', and if so, he was wrong
Back to the Necessary Entity - has he become a Christian yet?
Dear Dicky,
Oh the first Atheist ( only because it annoys your typical atheist ) to mention the Saintly Karen, and it was this Dear lady who first put me wise to the fundamental Atheist and this forum is awash with fundamental Atheists.
And yes maybe we do need a new thread, but just a quick reply to your post, the only words in the first chapter of Genesis you need to focus on are , "and behold it was very good" not the time span, a day, a year, a century, a millennia, an aeon "And behold it was very good".
Also and to help you along I have just dug out Karens wonderful small book " In The Beginning, a new interpretation of Genesis" because Dear Dicky you are allowed to do that, The Holy Bible is a living breathing document.
Gonnagle.
Stand by Gonnagle for a broadside from the fundies, man the guns Gonnagle
PS: Me an anti theist
Must have been in my blue period, hey I am always in my blue period, come on you Gers 
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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Assisted Suicide bill to be debated in parliament
« Last post by Nearly Sane on June 20, 2025, 04:32:20 PM »Potentially, pitched against the definite history of people forced to keep going through pain, suffering, and indignity longer than they wanted...The wrong side of history surely makes a claim to objective morality?
Time now to see if the Lords Spiritual are going to keep up their record of standing on the wrong side of history.
O.
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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Assisted Suicide bill to be debated in parliament
« Last post by Nearly Sane on June 20, 2025, 04:30:53 PM »I don't think you like the reality of supporting the early end of those that didn't really want it.Repeating above assertion doesn't make it anything more than assertion.
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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Assisted Suicide bill to be debated in parliament
« Last post by Walt Zingmatilder on June 20, 2025, 04:19:26 PM »Potentially, pitched against the definite history of people forced to keep going through pain, suffering, and indignity longer than they wanted...I don't think you like the reality of supporting the early end of those that didn't really want it.
Time now to see if the Lords Spiritual are going to keep up their record of standing on the wrong side of history.
O.
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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Assisted Suicide bill to be debated in parliament
« Last post by Outrider on June 20, 2025, 04:16:31 PM »That'll be an early end for some that didn't really want it.
Potentially, pitched against the definite history of people forced to keep going through pain, suffering, and indignity longer than they wanted...
Time now to see if the Lords Spiritual are going to keep up their record of standing on the wrong side of history.
O.
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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Assisted Suicide bill to be debated in parliament
« Last post by Nearly Sane on June 20, 2025, 04:07:09 PM »That'll be an early end for some that didn't really want it.It still has to go through the Lords but can you evidence your claim?
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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Assisted Suicide bill to be debated in parliament
« Last post by Walt Zingmatilder on June 20, 2025, 03:54:27 PM »That'll be an early end for some that didn't really want it.
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Christian Topic / Re: From Necessary Being to Christian God.
« Last post by Walt Zingmatilder on June 20, 2025, 03:32:20 PM »Hello Gonners,I take it you are still waiting and haven't settled for"The Kalam doesn't prove God"(Who said it did?).
I'm not sure quite what you mean by 'fundamental Atheist', but if it's what I think, I'd agree with the Prof "There certainly aren't any on here." The atheists I find on here are quite able to distinguish between poetic narrative, philosophical meditation and supposed and real history (Yes, the Bible does contain some of that, since the text has been corroborated by archaelogy). The greater part of the Bible's 'history' is probably fabricated though, for reasons I won't go into here.
I take issue with the Prof over the question of Myth, though, since he seems to take the word as simply meaning 'something untrue'. I accept, along with Karen Armstrong, that myth can sometimes impart deeper truths than any literal surface reading. But even this presents problems (perhaps we need a completely new thread on this). Let me take one obvious example: Genesis chapter 1 and the "Creation Days". Biblical literalists take these as being 24 days as per now. Now the style of the chapter is quite poetic, which might lead thinking Christians and atheists to speculate that the original writer never intended the word "Day" to be taken literally.
That's where the problem starts. We can't possibly know for sure what was in the original writer's head at the time. However, scholars have long identified this writer as the same old bore who wrote Leviticus (The Priestly writer), and this chap was absolutely obsessed with precise time intervals, hours, days and years, and much more anally retentive stuff besides. So perhaps he did mean the word "Day" to be taken literally here. He was reputedly of course 'inspired by God', and if so, he was wrong
Back to the Necessary Entity - has he become a Christian yet?
Given that a counter argument has already been put up on here namely "Surely mankind is too wee" for something as grand as God to worry about, let's start with that. Why does that necessarily follow?
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Christian Topic / Re: From Necessary Being to Christian God.
« Last post by Dicky Underpants on June 20, 2025, 03:25:08 PM »Yes. As I have pointed out there is no context for it to stumble blindly in, no laws of nature. If there were, those would be be the necessary entity.
You should have also worked out that abstract necessities do not bring anything into being.
You are agreeing that the pain-filled aeons of evolution are all adumbrated in the original 'ontological level'? If I could ever believe that were so, then I would become an anti-theist again (I was one for a short time, as apparently was Gonnagle). Like Ivan Karamazov, "I'd give God back the entrance ticket". As it is, I remain a quiet atheist with a small 'a'.